Marines do it their own way

MSNBC ^ | 9/30/01 | Sue Lackey

[kattracks]

A different approach to special forces
A Marine awaits orders during urban war training exercises last week at Camp Pendleton, California.
By Sue Lackey MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR

Sept. 30 —  For the average Marine, it is both amusing and a bit galling to hear all the talk about “special forces” and their capabilities. For while the Army, Navy and Air Force have created Special Operations Commands with a unique structure, the Marine Corps has taken its basic forward deployed unit — the Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) — and trained every one in special operations tactics.

THE FAMED Delta Force is often celebrated as the nation’s most elite special operations team, but its position as a member of the the Army’s Joint Special Operations Command gives it a narrow focus restricted to counterterrorism and hostage rescue. In contrast, each MEU must be qualified in 18 separate mission areas, including counter terrorism. This broad focus in training and qualifications makes the Marine unit more versatile than any other service’s special operations forces.
       Gen. Alfred M. Gray, who served as Commandant of the Marine Corps in the early 1980s, helped create the Joint Special Operations Command. But while the command often requests Marines to flesh out its capability, the Corps is the only service which has refused to join the command at an organizational level. “It goes against the reason the Marine Corps was developed,” says a Marine officer who is a special operations specialist. “It would have forced the Corps to focus on one mission, when the nation needed an amphibious force for forcible entry, with much broader capabilities.”
       Under a recent reform of the system, traditional special operations forces forces are assigned to specific theater Commanders in Chief — for instance, the Commander in Chief, Europe or the Commander in Chief, Southern Command, which handles Latin America. East of these commands have units with specific specialties, and depend on that regional commander for support. MEU’s, however, an amphibious force that can be deployed at will to any theater. Their floating base of operations gives them the ability to sustain a mission longer than other special operations forces, which are traditionally used for short term insertions, or in the case of the Green Berets, specific insurgency training missions.
 

      The true strength of the MEUs lie in their ability to augment their forces with air and ground combat elements and combat service support. This means any given unit can call in tanks, amphibious assault vehicles, and fixed wing aircraft — all of which are part of standard MEU order of battle. Other special operations forces must rely on conventional service support when additional forces are needed.
       A perfect example of this versatility was in the 1983 Grenada invasion, where Army special forces were inserted to extract U.S. Embassy staff. The team was able to reach their target, but were then bottled up inside the embassy and unable to get out through enemy troops. The JSOC team then called for Marine support. An MEU which had been diverted to Grenada broke through with tanks and armored vehicles to extract their colleagues and the embassy personnel they had rescued.
       The way in which special operations training has been integrated into the basic structure of the Corps has changed the capabilities of the Corps as a whole. The other military services are large enough to allow their SF units to function in some degree of separation. Because the Marine Corps is so small in numbers, its SOC qualified personnel rotate on duty throughout the Corps, which has enhanced the overall quality of training and identification with special operations forces. Most of these men have now percolated to the top of the command structure. “It’s been in place so long now that a lot of the flag officers grew up with this-they’re Al Gray’s boys,” said one Marine special operations veteran. “That’s what you do not get in the other special forces, because they tend to stay in their own areas. When they do go into other units to further their careers, they have problems integrating within the conventional forces and its military bureaucracy. They don’t do well as staff officers; they want to go back to their unit.”
       That lack of experienced special forces officers at high levels to give special forces a voice allows other branches of the conventional forces to marginalize the effectiveness of special operations in budget battles and mission planning — a situation the Marine Corps has managed to avoid.

       

[Illbay]

Sometimes their high morale tends to become an 'attitude problem,' especially in peacetime. But it is America's enemies who find they have a problem with that attitude when war comes.

That's all I'm asking our USMC dudes to remember.

[Illbay]

While we US Army and USMC vets are batting the ball back and forth,we should both take a few minutes out to recogonize the courage and skill of these people.

I think those of us not caught up in the p*ssin' contest, can easily do so.

[Illbay]

Why? A infantry assault is a infantry assault,regardless of if it comes from a helicopter or a ship.

I was kinda wonderin' the same thing myself. In fact, since it's all helicopter assault now anyways, who gets their feet wet anymore--unless they fight you back to the beaches, and where's the fun in that? I don't think a marine would likely allow that to happen, do you?

[Illbay]

You sound like a person who thinks the military doesn't pay their share of income taxes.

If it were up to me, no one in the military would pay income taxes, ever. And that goes for O's as well as E's.

[Illbay]

I don't believe you do our country, people, or fighting men proper respect when you criticize an innocent affection for the Marine Corps.

It has nothing to do with criticizing "innocent affection." If you don't love it, why are you there?

It has to do with sticking together as a TEAM when the real enemy has shed the blood of our people, and destroyed our treasure. That oughta get ANY red-blooded uniform REAL mad, even madder'n Marine vs. Army vs. Navy vs. AF vs. CG etc.

[Illbay]

I didn't realize you were such an expert on instilling espirit-de-corps in young soldiers.

I'm much more interested in instilling death in the ranks of our enemies. But if you insist your beloved p*ssing contest is more important, who'm I do argue?

[Slipjack]

What happened did our DI slip-up and let the Sand Pit Queen IllBay out for a breather or a Head CALL? For it's Lip's are moving again, and again more garbage is still coming out.

Maybe a full run up/down Mount MF with a 100 pound pack, and a M1 filled with LEAD, then the old 5 mile dip out to Sea will Soften his lips and fingers some?

[Scuttlebutt]

"…and a M1 filled with LEAD"

You jarheads always got the advanced weapons.

When I went through boot camp, we were issued 1917 Enfields with the bore plugged with lead. It was a very effective deterrent…not a single pair of skivvies were stolen from the cloth line when I was guarding it.

[COB1]

"we were issued 1917 Enfields with the bore plugged with lead."

That was so you guys wouldn't hurt yourselves.
That's a heckuva transition from a mop handle to a real rifle!

[COB1]

"Maybe a full run up..."

You can stop right there, Slipjack.
You lost him!

[Greatgrandma]

We, here in Iowa, have a unique opportunity to help elect a former Marine who is running in the Republican primary against wimpy Congressman Greg Ganske. The winner will then challenge Dungheap Harkin to represent us in the US Senate.

That ex-marine is Bill Salier. If anyone can help, please notify.

[Scuttlebutt]

"That was so you guys wouldn't hurt yourselves "

Yeah but it worked. Nary a single jarhead was able to infiltrate the fence between MCRD and NTC San Diego.

[JoeSixPack1]

That oughta get ANY red-blooded uniform REAL mad, even madder'n Marine vs. Army vs. Navy vs. AF vs. CG etc.

This statement proves the necessity for boot camp. You just don't seem to understand. First and foremost getting 'mad' is not an option for our military. Obeying orders is. Getting 'mad' has a way of getting you extremely dead. You are mistaking military rivalry with civilian arogance. Civilians get mad, Marines get even.

2nANGLICO, Force Troops, FMFLant 73-75 OOOHHHRahhhhhh baby!

[COB1]

"Can you understand the psyche of the average citizen who is expecting every uniform to do its duty?"

You're hung up on these expectations of what the military should do for the "average citizen" because you as an American citizen pay their salaries.
Has the military, in general, EVER let the American people down?
No, they work for peanuts and improvise when they don't have the gear it takes to do the job, but they're always out there protecting your ass the best they can with what they have.

You don't have to tell a Marine that you "expect" him to die for his country. He accepted that when he put on the uniform.
Your "expectations" simply cheapens his sacrifice.

[sneakypete]

The Russians have a Naval Infantry. The Marine Corps is a seperate branch of the military. The Navy and the Marine Corps fall under the department of the Navy, but are seperate branches. Marines aren't soliders,

Wrong. The very word "marine" means Naval infantry. Face it dude,you are the Navy's army! Please pay close attention to number 2 definition below. From the Merriam-Webster dictionary:

One entry found for marine.

Main Entry: marine
Function: noun
Date: 1669
1 a : the mercantile and naval shipping of a country b : seagoing ships especially in relation to nationality or class

2 : one of a class of SOLDIERS (emphasis mine) serving on shipboard or in close association with a naval force; SPECIFICALLY (emphasis mine) : a member of the U.S. Marine Corps

[JoeSixPack1]

Main Entry: marine
Function: noun
Date: 1669

Your definition is about 110 years to early.

[sneakypete]

In fact, since it's all helicopter assault now anyways, who gets their feet wet anymore--

Don't kid yourself. Even though the USMC has a "heavy lift" capability that the "airmobile" US Army units lack,they are BOTH "light infantry" whose job is to secure a beachhead/LZ/DZ so the heavier equipment and the larger units can be brought in. Neither are prepared or equipped to fight a war WHEN DEPLOYED FOR INTENDED USE,only a battle. This is more of a limitation and reflection on the equipment issued to these troops than it is on the troops themselves.

unless they fight you back to the beaches, and where's the fun in that? I don't think a marine would likely allow that to happen, do you?

While we all like to tease and have fun with our jarhead friends,nobody sane can EVER doubt their resolve or courage.You might whip them,but you will damn sure have to earn it because they ain't gonna give up.

Hey! I've even been told by semi-reliable sources that some of those Marines can even be taught to do stuff like drive trucks!

[sneakypete]

It has to do with sticking together as a TEAM when the real enemy has shed the blood of our people, and destroyed our treasure.

Don't worry about this at all. I realize you kinda got off on the wrong foot on this thread and didn't intend for your post to be taken the way it was taken,but when push comes to shove,it's ALL red,white,and blue. We're family,regardless of branch of service,rank,skin color,or anything else. You hurt one of us,you are wearing ALL of us. Trust me on this.

[Slipjack]

Scuttlebutt - yes we had M1's when I went through then afterwards, M14's were issued, then later in the years the worthless M16 that couldn't fire nor reach and through a tree to Tickle their GUTS.

But now I watch from the side lines when I am able to make it to the Base to watch our Young Red Blooded American Boy's Train to Protect our old worn out Bodies that was before them and before us ~~~~~~~~~!

There after this old goat stops by the NCO & O Club to talk with them, and try as I may to keep up with all of the changes with the new Training and Weapons they are now deploying & using.

[Slipjack]

Sorry Scuttlebutt the last post # 139 was ment for COB1 not you, and by the way when we finally broke for the day we were to damn tired and worn out to care about any fences, but it was fun thinking about it!