Posted on 09/30/2001 12:34:47 AM PDT by Mr. Mulliner
Judgment DayGod promised that calamity would follow disobedience. So why are we quick to dismiss it as a reason for the September 11 attacks?
By Frederica Mathewes-Green | posted 9/25/01On the day after the tragedy I drove through Washington, surprised to find it uncongested and tranquil. I drove past the battered Pentagon, where cars crept along the interstate at a few miles an hour as people craned their necks to see and comprehend our national wound. A few miles further, down among the suburban office towers, is a tiny old white clapboard church.
I stepped inside the cool interior, which was dimly lit and covered on walls and ceiling with paintings of Christ and the Apostles, of biblical figures and heroes from long ago. I took a seat to wait for my spiritual father and looked around. I saw faces of men and women who had known suffering, much more severe than what I had ever experienced, even as rocked as I felt just then. They stood serene around the walls, many holding symbols of victory.
Father George Calciu came out from beside the altar and greeted me. He is a small, resilient man, unusually vigorous for his 76 years. His hair and beard are thick and white, and his face is permanently creased with the marks of indomitable good cheer. Cheerfulness is an unlikely attribute, given his story. In his native Romania Fr. George challenged the communist authorities repeatedly and forcefully, with a courage that defied self-preservation. He was confined in brutal prisons, subjected to brainwashing, and formed a lifelong friendship with a fellow prisoner, Richard Wurmbrand, author of Tortured for Christ.
Today the first thing he asked me was, "Why do you think that happened yesterday?"
I was stumped for a minute. I hadn't thought of exactly that question. I said, "I don't know."
Fr. George said, "It was the punishment of God."
Well, there's something I hadn't thought of. Though I wondered why I hadn't; I've just finished an intensive study of the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, and knew that the Jews have always seen even that brutal and sacrilegious tragedy as divine retribution for their sins. In fact, that seems to be the Old Testament pattern; anytime Israel suffered a military defeat, they responded with repentance. It didn't replace other strategic responses, but was an indispensable companion.
This isn't just an Old Testament phenomenon. When people told Jesus that Pilate had killed worshippers at the Temple, he responded, "Unless you repent, you will all likewise perish" (Luke 13:3). There seems to be a biblical pattern here: national suffering should bring about repentance.
I have often wondered what might return our sick culture to health. I've sometimes felt overwhelmed at the ugliness of America's spiritual condition, at 40 million children killed by abortion, at the promotion world-wide of sexual promiscuity and materialism, the contempt of God, the spreading infection of American culture.
I've often wondered what might turn us around. Everything moves in cycles, and some sick cultures do return to health; it can happen in a generation. But I have never heard of a historical example that wasn't inaugurated by catastrophe. Healing is the fruit of repentance, and repentance comes in the wake of suffering. There aren't many examples of spontaneous remission from this sort of illness.
Fr. George told me that the night before he had opened his Bible and it had fallen to Psalm 127. He read me the first verse: "Unless the Lord builds the house, those who build it labor in vain. Unless the Lord watches over the city, the watchman stays awake in vain." How, he asked me, could the hijackers have overcome such a high level of security unless the Lord somehow permitted it?
He then turned to Daniel 9:12-14.
He has confirmed his words, which he spoke against us and against our rulers who ruled us, by bringing upon us a great calamity; for under the whole heaven there has not been done the like of what has been done against Jerusalem. As it is written in the law of Moses, all this calamity has come upon us, yet we have not entreated the favor of the Lord our God, turning from our iniquities and giving heed to thy truth. Therefore the Lord has kept ready the calamity and has brought it upon us; for the Lord our God is righteousness in all the works which he has done, and we have not obeyed his voice.Fr. George went on to say that the concepts of repentance and humility are mostly absent in America, and it doesn't seem likely that we'll understand the lesson. When he first came to the U.S. he would sometimes speak of the sins he committed in prison, and people would say, "How could you commit sins? You were in prison." He smiled at this. "Of course you still sin," he said. "You sin in your thoughts."
But Americans, he says, are very proud, and are used to being powerful, and the concepts of repentance and humility are not commonly expressed even among conservative Christians. Over the years I have come to see how these concepts are the very core of the Gospels; they were Jesus' most consistent message.
But we tend to skip over them in our rush to reassure ourselves that God loves us. He does, of course, but you don't really know how much he loves you until you dare to repent. Until you see how much God had to forgive in you, you can't really see the height of his love. Not many churches where that is preached today, conservative or liberal.
Thus it won't do much good for us to spray on some superficial piety, while not taking it to deep, self-challenging levels. Fr. George said that he was very moved when he saw the Congressmen singing "God Bless America." Then he began to think, in how many of their votes and actions do these same men and women work to cast away the blessing of God?
The thought occurred to me that what the song could really mean is, "God, bless the things we already do; bless the things we have decided to do." A friend of mine says the local strip club has changed its sign to read "God Bless America," which just about sums up the problem.
This gave me a lot to think about. For years I've been thinking that the main thing America needed to do is to be humble and repent. Here comes a blow that looks a lot like things God has done in the past to kindle that response, the kind of suffering that had Israel weeping in sackcloth.
But no one, including Christians, is likely to draw such conclusions. Instead, we'll focus on how much we have been wronged, and smite our adversaries by our own considerable earthly power, and feel satisfied at videotape of young Arab men frying to death in Jeeps. If Fr. George is right, if "repent" is indeed God's message, I'm afraid we'll need more than one lesson to get it.Copyright © 2001 by the author or Christianity Today International/Christianity Today magazine.
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That might be so. However, as a Catholic Christian, I totally reject the idea that all things are God's doing. Let's start from the beginning. In Scripture and in Catholic theology, Lucifer was the principal fallen angel who must lament the loss of his original glory, bright as the morning star. He grew envious of God and thought himself as being even more powerful than God. He was the chief Angel and the closest to God. This first sin of Satan was not precisely pride, but rather a species of spiritual lust.
The Devil and the other fallen angels were spiritual or angelic creatures created by God in a state of innocence. They became evil by their own volition. It is also known that man sinned by the suggestion of the Devil, and in the next world, the wicked shall suffer perpetual punishment with the Devil.
This was before the sin of our first parents, which is ascribed to the instigation of the Devil: "By the envy of the Devil, death came into the world" (Wisdom 2:24).
The existence of Satan does much more than simply add another source of temptation to the weaknesses of the world and the flesh. Its presence means a combination and an intelligent direction of all the elements of evil. The whole Church and each one of her children are beset by dangers: the fire of persecution, the enervation of ease, the dangers of wealth and poverty, heresies and errors of opposite characters, rationalism and superstition, fanaticism and indifference. It would be bad enough if we had to face these forces working separately without any definite purpose, but our souls' peril incalculably increases when all varieties of evil may be organized and directed by a vigilant and hostile intelligence.
Thus we should repent our sins and mend our ways: "Put you on the armor of God, that you may be able to stand again." But, we should never attribute to God that which is the Devil's work, which we recognize by its fruits through the gift of spiritual discernment.
It looks that way on the surface. Can you see into these people's hearts? No, that's why you must judge by actions. Let's see if they're actions change.
Christ Himself said He came not to change the law but to fulfill it. Yes, He did make the ultimate and last sacrifice for our sins, but when we as a nation choose to follow 'gods' instead of the one true God, why would not we be chastised for our sin?
Before I get flamed here, that doesn't mean I don't mourn for the victims and cry for justice. I want, and believe that it is God's Will, that as a nation we retaliate against the terrorists. But I also understand and believe that this is a wakeup call for this nation to return to its roots, not only politically, but morally and religiously as well.
So you think that Satan used the terrorists, as opposed to God using them? How do you know? Even if God didn't direct it to happen, He allowed it to happen.
In effect, what you seem to be saying is that because Hollywood is mocking God, and I, Miss Marple, live in this country, and I am unable to stop them, I am to be punished for their sins.
I do not believe that God works this way.
Furthermore, if you carry this to its logial conclusion, then it seems to say that the terrorists were being used by God. To me that is blasphemy.
I am not going to return to this thread because I have nothing more to say. I like you folks a lot, but I think you are in error.
I was not intending to be combative....
I will say no more.....God bless you.
We know this was not God's doing by the nature of the actions -- they were unequivocally evil.
Since the terrorists believed they were doing God's will, it is clear they were being deceived by the one we call the Father of Lies -- Satan. However, this does not excuse their actions. There are no conscripts in Satan's army. Ultimately, no one serves Satan against his or her will. IOW they knew what they were doing.
God "works all things after the counsel of His will" (Ephesians 1:11).
"All things" includes rolling dice (Proverbs 16:33), falling sparrows (Matthew 10:29), failing sight (Exodus 4:11), financial loss (1 Samuel 2:7), the decisions of kings (Proverbs 21:1), the sickness of children (2 Samuel 12:15), the suffering and slaughter of saints (1 Peter 4:19; Psalm 44:11), the completion of travel (James 4:15), repentance (2 Timothy 2:25), faith (Philippians 1:29), holiness (Philippians 3:12-13), spiritual growth (Hebrews 6:1-3), life and death (1 Samuel 2:6), and the crucifixion of Christ (Acts 4:27-28).
From the smallest thing to the greatest, good and evil, happy and sad, pagan and Christian, pain and pleasure—God governs all for His wise, just, and good purposes (Isaiah 46:10). Lest we miss the point, the Bible speaks most clearly to this in the most painful situations. Amos asks, "If a calamity occurs in a city, has not the Lord done it?" (Amos 3:6). After losing his 10 children, Job says, "The Lord gave and the Lord has taken away. Blessed be the name of the Lord" (Job 1:21). Covered with boils, he says, "Shall we indeed accept good from God and not accept adversity?" (Job 2:10).
Oh, yes, Satan is real and active and involved in this world of woe! In fact, Job 2:7 says, "Satan went out from the presence of the Lord and smote Job with sore boils from the sole of his foot to the crown of his head." Satan struck him. But Job did not get comfort by looking at secondary causes. He got comfort by looking at the ultimate cause. "Shall we not accept adversity from God?" And the author of the book agrees when he says that Job's brothers and sisters "consoled him and comforted him for all the adversities that the Lord had brought on him" (Job 42:11). James underlines God's purposeful goodness in Job's misery: "You have heard of the endurance of Job and have seen the outcome of the Lord's dealings, that the Lord is full of compassion and is merciful" (James 5:11). Job himself concludes in prayer: "I know that You can do all things, and that no purpose of Yours can be thwarted" (Job 42:2). Yes, Satan is real, and he is terrible—and he is on a leash.
The other reason I don't say, "God did not cause the calamity, but He can use it for good," is that it undercuts the very hope it wants to create. I ask those who say this: "If you deny that God could have 'used' a million prior events to save 6,000 people from this great evil, what hope then do you have that God will 'use' this terrible event to save you (spiritually or physically) in the hour of trial?" We say we believe He can use these events for good, but deny that He could use the events of the past to hold back the evil of Sept. 11. The Bible teaches He could have restrained this evil (Genesis 20:6). "The Lord nullifies the counsel of the nations; He frustrates the plans of the peoples" (Psalm 33:10). But it was not in His plan to do it. Let us beware. If we spare God the burden of His sovereignty, we lose our only hope.
We all are sinners. We deserve to perish. Every breath is an undeserved gift. We have one great hope: Jesus Christ died to obtain pardon and righteousness for us (Ephesians 1:7; 2 Corinthians 5:21), and God will employ His all-conquering, sovereign grace to preserve us for our inheritance (Jeremiah 32:40). We surrender this hope if we sacrifice this sovereignty.
--end article
I couldn't have said it any better.
God ALONE is the sovereign of the Universe! He does not distance Himself from the circumstances of life (Amos 3:6). God is not the author of evil (James 1:13). Satan and the depraved human heart devised these wicked events
BUT God is sovereign, NOT MAN, NOT Satan. Yes men have a free will, yes they are responsible for their actions BUT, Satan and man can not do anything unless God allows it to take place. Dr. Warren needs to re-read Job. God is in control and He has Satan on a very short leash.
God never told Job never why the things that happened to him took place. Job's response: he humbled himself, recognized GOD"S sovereignty over disaster and instead of accusing God of evil or impotence. He worshiped the Sovereign of the Universe (Job 1:21-22)
Is it really unreasonable to think that God allowed these events to occur/in judgment upon our nation for it's sin?
Here is a copy of a message that was proclaimed yesterday.
Dr. S
P.S. Warning, it is NOT "seeker sensitive".
God... Why?...
Dr. S
God… why? Given the reality of Tuesday’s events, this question is being asked throughout our country and the world. There is a very good possibility that God temporarily lifted His hand of protection from America and has judged us for our sins. For years we have sown the wind and now we have reaped the whirlwind of judgment.
It was ironic to see Daschel, Dodd, Kennedy, Gephardt, Mrs. Clinton and other political leaders commiserating in Washington in the midst of this tragedy, singing "God Bless America" and asking the people of America to "pray to God"! Many of these same government "leaders" have been totally opposed to the Lord Jesus Christ, prayer in school or within the halls of government. People who support and promote sexual immorality, sodomy and the wholesale genocide of the unborn stand together, and ask for prayer.
But what does God have to say about all of this:
24 "Because I called and you refused, I stretched out my hand and no one paid attention;
25 And you neglected all my counsel And did not want my reproof;
26 I will also laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your dread comes,
27 When your dread comes like a storm And your calamity comes like a whirlwind, When distress and anguish come upon you.
28 "Then they will call on me, but I will not answer; They will seek me diligently but they will not find me,
29 Because they hated knowledge And did not choose the fear of the LORD.
30 "They would not accept my counsel, They spurned all my reproof.
31 "So they shall eat of the fruit of their own way And be satiated with their own devices.
32 "For the waywardness of the naive will kill them, And the complacency of fools will destroy them.
33 "But he who listens to me shall live securely And will be at ease from the dread of evil." (Proverbs 1:24 - 33)
We have a biblical mandate to pray for President Bush and those in leadership, we have a responsibility to pray for the nation. It is our Christian duty and privilege. But God's word is clear: "we reap what we sow". America has chosen and supported many ungodly and unrighteous political and religious leaders because they are reflective of what many Americans themselves believe and how many of us morally and spiritually live our lives. We have been willing to overlook their ungodly conduct and policies because "character does not matter, it is the economy stupid." Well, God will NOT be mocked. That said, He holds out this promise:
13 "If I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or if I command the locust to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among My people,
14 and My people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin and will heal their land. (2 Chronicles 7:13 - 14)
We as a nation, founded upon faith in Christ Jesus and biblical principles have replaced Him with other "gods" (which are NOT gods). Many have made a concerted effort to reject Him and tear God out of the very fabric of our society and personal lives. We have tended to treat the Lord Jesus like a "dixie cup" which we use and throw away at our convenience. We expect God not to judge us while asking Him to run to our rescue and protect us from our enemies.
I have an honest question I would like you to answer, whether you agree with me or not. Before the events of September 11th took place, were we as individuals and as a nation living righteous and godly lives? Lives pleasing to God who is Holy, absolutely righteous and totally just? Or had we chosen to forget Christ, spurn His Word and do whatever was right in our own eyes? If the answer is the latter, then no matter how painful it is, the truth is this: We are being judged, as a people for our sin. It is not my intention to offend but we can not use God and expect Him to be at our beck and call. Nor can we call upon Him to "protect" and "defend us" when it is convenient or politically expedient and spurn Jesus and His Word the rest of the time. There is a simple yet profound principle in His Word and it is this: God is not mocked, you reap what you sow and what you reap is multiplied. That is true for individuals, it is also true for nations.
Another question that is being asked boils down to this: How could God use a nation or individuals even more evil to judge another nation less evil than itself? ... Because He loves us! He did this numerous times throughout the Old Testament. Israel (the Northern kingdom) had turned away from following the Lord and He allowed the Assyrians to overcome and conquer them. The Assyrians were brutal beyond comprehension. They ripped open pregnant women and dashed their babies against walls and pavement, they impaled their living victims, skinned them alive and crushed them under huge threshing sledges. This is just a small sample of what they did to Israel. The Southern kingdom of Judah was later conquered by the Babylonians. A wicked nation, totally given over to idols, worshipping their own strength, and immorality. Why did God allow this? Because His people had persisted in wickedness and in rejecting Him. God is loving, gracious and long suffering, but there comes a time when His patience is at an end. God is not only a God of love, He is also holy and just. He must judge sin, even the sin of nations. History has shown that no nation can spurn God, reject His Word and law and get away with it. Not Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, Israel, or the United States of America.
Fortunately, there is hope, it is not too late. God has not forsaken loves us and holds out this promise to us as individuals and as a nation:
13 "If I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or if I command the locust to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among My people,
14 and My people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin and will heal their land." (2 Chronicles 7:13 - 14)
What has happened is an unprecedented tragedy, but we are not without hope. I believe that God can use these events to produce spiritual revival throughout America if we respond in humility and repentance. We have been given a wake up call and a window of opportunity. How we respond is up to us.
#31: "I know where my God was the morning of September 11, 2001! He was very busy. First of all, he was trying to discourage anyone from taking this flight." What??? "...he was "trying" to discourage anyone from taking this flight."???????So God isn't sovereign, then, huh? He just "tries" ... but sometimes *the created* (people) just stop him from doing what he intends.
It's called FREE WILL. G-d is sovereign and He communicates with all of us; most of us just choose not to listen.
"I guess you'll have to explain that one to us, Stingray. How is it slandering God to say that there ARE consequences for our self-indulgence, for ignoring God's statutes? I'm sure that there were many Jews taken into exile in Babylon who wanted to believe that it had nothing to do with their disobedience."
There are consequences, but what happened 9/11/01 wasn't one of them. It was an act of incredible evil, pure and despicable.
America is not Israel. Americans are not "God's chosen people."
And one more thing...
God poured out His wrath on mankind's sin at Calvary. Read Isaiah 53 and John 3:16-18 to see how this was done. The next of God's judgements to fall won't come until the end of this age of grace, when God will judge all flesh for unbelief (that's what the Book of Revealtion is about.)
In the meantime blaming God, and blaming the thousands of innocents who died, for the barbaric acts of 9/11 are slanders against both God and the victims: against God because you're implying that He poured out His wrath on innocent flesh (which means He is both unjust and unloving) and a slander against the victims, because if God is just, and this was His judgement, then they somehow deserved to die for America's sins!
Are you suggesting that Christ's death was not sufficient to satisfy God's sense of justice, that He would require the death of thousands of our countrymen to pay for those sins not covered by Christ's death?!?! That's exactly what you are saying when you say this was "God's judgement," and it makes no more sense coming from you than it does from the Muslims who perpetrated this cowardly act against us!!!
With all due respect, you people are slandering God and the victims and you need to stop this now!!!
You are all a disgrace to the faith for preaching this kind of bogus, unscriptural nonsense!
Not that I'm sure it matters to any of you, but I am ashamed of you all nontheless!
"Even if God didn't direct it to happen, He allowed it to happen."
It's called "free will."
I simply have one other question for all you people alleging that the events of 9/11 were an act of God's wrath (because that's what God's judgement is: the outpouring of His wrath.)
Someone on another thread wrote, in essence, that this was God's "payback" for abortion in this country. While I am staunchly pro-life, I wonder why it took almost 40 million innocent babies slaughtered and almost 30 years for God to judge America this way?
Did God intend to hit all those abortion clinics with a fleet of planes and just miss? Or did He intend to kill thousands of people who may never have had anything to do with abortion (some may have even been pro-life and Christian, for all we know)?
All of you who are alleging that 9/11 was an act of God's wrath, please tell me, is God a bad shot, or is He unjust?
I anxiously await your answer.
13 "If I shut up the heavens so that there is no rain, or if I command the locust to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among My people,
14 and My people who are called by My name humble themselves and pray and seek My face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, will forgive their sin and will heal their land." (2 Chronicles 7:13 - 14)
You have cited this passage wildly out of context. Please go back and reread to whom the promise was made, where and why.
Don't let the Enemy Distroy America. Embrass your Enemy, the ones who love Peace. And then tell them you fear Lawlessness. Cause Lawlessness becomes Terrorism. We need both sides. We need the conscience(mercy) that the Liberals give and they need the Law we can give. Lets be God healing Hands, not Satans hands of Death and Distruction.
Where does the concept of "justice" fit into your "touchy-feely" world?
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