Posted on 09/29/2001 9:28:57 PM PDT by ChinaThreat
Except for the part about the moneychangers. Oh yeah, and when he called the Pharisees "wicked and adulterous." Come to think of it. Jesus talked a lot about Hell and torment too...
More, in fact, then the rest of the authors of the Bible combined.
Agreed about the state of the spirit of the saved. Agreed about the GWT judgement for the unsaved. Not agreed about the disposition of the spirits of the unsaved while they are waiting for the GWT. Please explain and reference.
Thanks,Onion Orion
Well the salvation of non-believers is a big issue with me for some reason. I studied Catholic doctrine about this for a long time. I believe Catholic doctrine on this makes perfect sense and is in accordance with the Bible. At any rate I won't budge from by position.
Look at all the different views on this thread. Everyone thinks their belief is the right one. I say if you hold your belief in good conscience, because in your heart and in your mind you believe that it is what God says, then you MUST follow it. We can't all be right because we all differ. But the truth is out there. And if we are striving for the truth, even though we miss the mark that is all God asks of us.
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Point of order...
It is Jesus, and the NT writers that were very matter of fact about who is going to Heaven and who is not.
It is a fact that each individual (not some Christian somewhere) gets to choose if he wants to go to Heaven.
Jesus, not Peter, not Joseph Smith, not Jerry Fallwell, not GWB, not John Paul whatever, not Bill Clinton, not Mohammad, nor some Himalayan bean curd eating guru, is holding the keys to the Kingdom. Do you want 'em? Just ask. It's real easy.
"I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
-Jesus Christ (emphasis added)
All I know is that they are not with Christ, not in Hell, and are probably real sorry they didn't get their spiritual affairs squared away when they had the chance. Think about what it must be like to face at least 1000 years of waiting for a trial and then the lake of fire. Not pretty.
Like being stuck in that Comparitive Religions course with sanctimonious blowhards. I liked the reading materials but hated the classroom discussions.
Could you please cite a scriptural reference for this position?
Rev 20:11-15, Rom 3:23, John 14:6 seem to contradict what you are saying.
Yes he did. But he did not name names. That's all I am saying. I don't deny China Threat his/her anger. Atta is beyond our reach now. There can be no doubt that what he did was objectively evil. He cannot be punished here on earth and he would be if it was possible. So it's very frustrating.
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| Rocky Mountain News |
| To print this page, select File then Print from your browser |
| URL: http://www.rockymountainnews.com /drmn/local/article/0,1299,DRMN_15_835399,00.html |
Man finds human penis in bottle of fruit punch
Police don't know if crime is involved
By Tillie Fong, News Staff Writer
COMMERCE CITY -- Police say a man found a penis Thursday in a bottled drink he purchased at a grocery store.
"For us, it's a mystery," said Elaine Rowe, spokeswoman for Commerce City police.
"We don't know if there is a crime involved. This could be a fraud, mutilation or attempted homicide."
Thursday morning, Juan Sanchez-Marchez, 41, a machine operator at Foothills Mail and Supply, was at work, taking his usual sips from a 20-ounce bottle of Ora Potency Fruit Punch.
After he had downed about two-thirds of the bottle, he found something in the opaque red drink.
He called over his 16-year-old son, Manuel, who also works at the shop. His boss told him that it looked like a penis and to report it to the police.
A pathologist with the Adams County coroner's office determined it was a 3-inch segment of human penis. It was cleanly cut at the base.
Authorities do not know whether the body part came from an adult or juvenile, or whether it had been taken from a cadaver or a living person.
A DNA test will be conducted on the penis, in case it may be related to an ongoing Adams County investigation where various body parts, including a head and part of a leg, have been found but not identified.
The Ora Potency Fruit Punch comes in a clear glass bottle with a label.
Sanchez-Marchez said the top was intact when he opened it.
"It's a very hard top to get off," he said.
Police do not believe that Sanchez-Marchez put the penis in the bottle.
"He's a very credible witness," Rowe said.
The drink was purchased Wednesday from the King Soopers at 6040 E. 65th Ave.
Sanchez-Marchez bought six bottles. Nothing was found in the others.
The product has been taken off the shelves at the store and from other King Soopers in the metro area.
A King Soopers spokesperson could not be reached for comment late Friday.
Rowe said the drink was dated at least a year ago and was bottled at a plant in Pittsburgh.
"They said there was no way it could have occurred there," she said.
"It's a mystery where it came from and how it got into this bottle."
September 29, 2001
Copyright 2001, Rocky Mountain News. All Rights Reserved.
If you read Rev 20, you will find that the Great White Throne judgment is nothing more than a condemnation. The whole point of the entire Bible is that NO ONE makes it to Heaven on works. They only make it on the salvation of Jesus Christ. Not even Hillary Clinton or Anita Hill is perfect enough to withstand the GWT. Not me. Not you.
The ONLY person who lived a sinless life was born in an animal feeding trough because his step-father had to pay his taxes, and was executed by the Roman army for a crime he did not commit. He demonstrated the sinless life because he was God. That same man will sit on that white throne and judge all others that did not call His name to be saved.
But I never said it was only good intentions. I said Jesus death on the cross saves us. I said it several times too. The sin of Adam closed the gates of heaven to all men. When Jesus died on the cross he was the perfect sacrifice for our sins and his death opened the gates of heaven.
This is a little off the point but don't forget that the first covenant that God made with a human was the one he made with Noah. Noah was neither Christian or Jew. There was no bible in his day. He was a natural man who, I think must have lived by the law that God had written on his heart. Which is why God spoke to him and told him to build an Ark because there was going to be a flood. And Noah obeyed God. So it just shows me that not being a Christian is not a sign that you are going to be left out and shunted to the sidelines. That's my take anyway.
Then, you have a million differing opinions from people on these threads who are not born again Christians, who believe all kinds of things, and people who don't believe at all and that is where you see the back and forth.
No Christian would say you can reject the gift of salvation Christ offers us and still spend eternity with him in heaven and with Him as He rules on earth. Can't happen.
Noah was not judged by the work God and Christ did on the cross because Christ had not come to complete God's plan for salvation. But every soul alive since Christ's sacrifice are judged by whether they accept Him as Lord and are born again. You said Jesus' death on the cross saves us, but it does not save us if we reject him. Do you think Jesus took all our sins and paid the price on the cross and now everyone on earth has some ticket to heaven if they're halfway good and think there is a God out there somewhere?
Well I think this is theological speculation. But it is well reasoned based on what we know about God's mercy. God is fair. Perfectly fair. To be fair is NOT the same thing as being permissive. So we should not presume upon his mercy or dispair that he will withhold it. We just have to have a hopeful confidence in him that his mercy and his justice are in perfect balance.
Point of order...
The only universal thing Jesus's death brought about was the end of temple sacrifices as the covering for sin. Jesus' own sacrifice paid for those sins, yet the sinner still needs to ask for this covering of Christ's blood to escape judgment.
The original Passover in Exodus 12, the temple sacrifices, and Christ's execution are all specific to the individual asking for "passover" of the wrath of God. There is nothing universal about Christ's salvation anymore than "good" Egyptian households being spared the plague of the firstborn in Exodus. Only those households with lamb's blood on the lintels were spared (specific request). The same is for Christ's blood on your spiritual "lintels."
It is imperative that you understand this. The Bible states that no one is good. It also states that anyone attempting to bring about his salvation by trying to impress God with good works, is only making the problem worse - they are insulting God. So, the entire notion of a "good" Moslem, "good" Hindu, "good" Mormon, or even a "good" Christian is ludicrous. Good works are a thank-you note for Christ's salvation - not the cover charge for the entrance into Heaven.
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