Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Civilization Envy
National Review Online ^

Posted on 09/28/2001 2:01:52 PM PDT by VinnyTex

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-88 next last
To: ankaboot
Lol ... fair enough. I guess I've been in my own world, as usual, and just hadn't seen you show up there.

(It's a bear trying to wade through latest posts or latest articles, anymore. I'll just add you to my home page, then.)

Granted, there's plenty on which we disagree but the book is written in love and is very illuminating in many respects ... both as to Islam and as to those points at which "radical Islam" could be tapped by those with an agenda they can fulfill USING Muslims ... just as they are mighty good at USING Christians to fulfill same in places like Latin America or Catholic Universities.

I'll flag you when I post so you can weigh in. Way back in "Limbo" days, I always found you both thoughtful and thought-provoking.

Best regards.

41 posted on 10/01/2001 7:00:35 AM PDT by Askel5
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: ankaboot
P.S. I also plan to make some pro-life posts using the Muslim arguments as set forth by Hathout in an effort to help those around here who are hopelessly confused by scientific semantics and the meaning of "IS".
42 posted on 10/01/2001 7:02:37 AM PDT by Askel5
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: VinnyTex
I love this article!
43 posted on 10/01/2001 7:02:53 AM PDT by Howlin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Dumb_Ox
Would you have even heard of the Atlantic Magazine article if it weren't for Jonah's piece in NRO? I wouldn't have.

FWIW, I printed the Atlantic piece out and have saved it as a reference work to compare against current and future events. I think one can make a case that the article posits, amongst other reasons, that "envy" is a driving factor in Muslim rage.

44 posted on 10/01/2001 7:20:38 AM PDT by borkrules
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: VinnyTex
The author speaks like a typical Westerner. There was never at time when Islam was at the forefront of social or cultural development. The vaunted Islamic culture of the middle ages was stolen from the Roman Empire (during the Christian phase Westerners like to call the "Byzantine Empire" to deny its continuity with the Roman Empire). Until it was extinguished by Islam, the Empire and its capital Constantinople, The City, it was usually called, were the beacon of social and cultural development for the whole world.

Barbarous folk, Vikings, as-yet-unChristianized Bulgars, Avars, Crusaders and Muslims all flocked to Constantinople as moths to a candle, until weakened by the Crusaders it fell to the Ottoman Turks. The City was a haven to Saxon exiles from the Norman conquest, had tolerant policies toward religious minorities more generous than the dhimmitude offered by Islam, had hospitals, a university, homes for the aged, the poor, and for reformed prostitutes. The arts flourished, for contrary to what Western art historian taught, classical knowledge of perspective and form were preserved in the secular art of the Empire. Indeed, the stylized forms of iconography could not exist without a knowledge of perspective, and the deliberate choice to send a spiritual message by reversing perspective so that the viewer is the vanishing point, and that which is beyond the icon, visually the background, but noetically the spiritual realm to which the icon points is larger. It is from the Empire that both the Muslims and the Western rennaisance derived their knowledge of classical antiquity. The Muslims did not preserve classical antiquity, rather they destroyed its last outpost.

The only significant contributions Islamic culture gave to the world are some poetry (mostly by authors whose sect of Islam was persecuted by the main body of Islam), some non-representational art and algebra. Even the latter is simply the result of having a very smart man who saw how to put the numeration system stolen from the Hindus together with the knowledge of Diophantine equations lifted from the Christian Roman Empire.

45 posted on 10/01/2001 9:04:11 AM PDT by The_Reader_David
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

Comment #46 Removed by Moderator

To: VinnyTex
While critics have called his remarks "unacceptable," "barbaric," "silly," and — of course — "racist," I am at a loss to find a single untrue word in his remarks

Yep.
We all thought that Brave New World and 1984 addressed western civilization, right?
I have never seen better examples of "doublespeak" than this...

And yes, I also am waiting for the Muslims to point out which part of those statements is not true.

47 posted on 10/01/2001 12:39:27 PM PDT by Publius6961
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sinkspur
We're a decadent bunch, we are.

No we are a stupid bunch.
Adding 20 million Afghanis to our welfare rolls will freeze terrorism in its tracks.

Yep, works for me.

48 posted on 10/01/2001 12:41:55 PM PDT by Publius6961
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: VinnyTex
"[A]nd just because the Taliban is a harsh unintended consequence of that support, doesn't mean we should have held the door open for Soviet expansionism. Does it?"

Yes, it does. Russia has always been at war with Islam. Just because there happened to be Communists in the Kremlin does not alter the justice of Russia's cause. They also imprisoned murderers and rapists in the USSR. Should we have sided with common felons just because they were enemies of the Soviet government?

The West has been engaged in a life and death struggle with aggressive Islam since Mohammed's psychopathic homicidal vermin galloped out of their desert to destroy Christian civilisation in North Africa. Until now, America has been spared the tender mercies of Islam because we do not have a significant indigenous Islamic community, nor do we border any Islamic states. Now, after 9/11, we Americans have been fully initiated into The West. We have joined the same club as the Byzantine Empire, Russia, Hungary, Austria, Serbia, Greece, Spain, Italy, and France. They have all, at some time, been targeted by Jihad. Their lands were invaded, their citizens massacred, their churches desecrated, and their children sold into slavery.

Russia has know this at first hand. The U.S., blinded by ideological and geo-political categories, simply assumed that the war in Afganistan and the rebellion in Chechnya were purely political struggles. They are not; they are part of an ongoing agenda of world domination that will not end until the last Jihadist is safely planted.

49 posted on 10/01/2001 1:00:24 PM PDT by Goetz_von_Berlichingen
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Publius6961
Adding 20 million Afghanis to our welfare rolls will freeze terrorism in its tracks.

No doubt you'd rather nuke 'em.

I'm all for an all-out assault on bin Laden and sympathetic groups and nations.

But, preventing mass starvation is simply the right thing to do. These Afghanis won't be so amenable to helping the Taliban, either.

50 posted on 10/01/2001 1:08:42 PM PDT by sinkspur
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: VinnyTex
Thanks for posting. NRO has done a bang up job in making much sense out of many of the events since 09/11/01.
51 posted on 10/01/2001 2:02:13 PM PDT by Fury
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ankaboot
To all of which I will simply reply by pointing out that the reciprocating steam engine was invented at Constantinople, but the only use to which it was put was to shake a building to evict some odious tenants.

A list of discoveries whose utitility was not exploited due to social conditions of the civilization in which they were made does not put a civilization at the forefront of culture or social development. The most humane and cultured society of the middle ages was the Christian Roman Empire, which Islam destroyed and pillaged for the basis on which what you have cited was built.

52 posted on 10/01/2001 3:50:11 PM PDT by The_Reader_David
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

Comment #53 Removed by Moderator

To: *Clash of Civilizatio
Bumping thanks to John's great new search engine.

For the record, the author of this piece is Jonah Goldberg.

54 posted on 12/07/2001 6:20:15 PM PST by denydenydeny
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: VinnyTex
Bump for newbies to see. I'm a veteran and this is first time I have seen this article.
55 posted on 03/23/2002 12:53:35 PM PST by timestax
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: muggs
bump for newbies
56 posted on 03/23/2002 12:53:59 PM PST by timestax
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 55 | View Replies]

To: VinnyTex
bump
57 posted on 03/27/2002 9:41:48 PM PST by timestax
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Chuckster
An Islam sucks , bump!
58 posted on 03/28/2002 11:31:13 AM PST by timestax
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: x
bump
59 posted on 04/03/2002 9:54:45 AM PST by timestax
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Askel5
bttt
60 posted on 04/03/2002 11:25:54 AM PST by timestax
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-8081-88 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson