[Richard Axtell]

"It is simply, in both cases, a refusal to let govt stomp on people's rights because "their motives are pure" and they have a Big Problem to tackle. It is a realization that some things are "problems" that may or not be solved, and others are just chronic conditions that never will be. "The poor you will always have with you" someone popular on FR said once, about 2000 years ago, and there never has been a society where nobody is trying to mess up their brain chemistry. "

Then, I guess libertarians must join liberals and conservatives in accepting the results of their policies, if there can be such a thing as a libertarian "policy." That would be the only intellectually honest thing for any and all of us to do. Now... do you think it is a false choice to have to pick between the current glaring inequities, burdensome costs, and the full range of violations of civil rights that are a result of the "Drug War", or the greatly accelerated decline of the society, greatly increased public health problems, wider economic dislocation and weakness due to lower productivity, and further destruction of the American family that would be the result of national decriminalization or worse, legalization of all drugs? Or would it just be easier to pretend that none of this will happen, despite generations of clear evidence resulting from re-legalized alcohol abuse, narrow the argument to only concern marijuana, and proceed with what seems to be the eventual fate of the United States... drug based decrepitude?

[sendtoscott]

I suppose yes, if I refrain from using force on someone else to make them behave the way I want them to behave, then I'm not responsible for what they do to themselves. People (outside of drug use) harm themselves all the time. Am I responsible for unwed motherhood because I'm not demanding that fornication be made illegal?

Or would it just be easier to pretend that none of this will happen, despite generations of clear evidence resulting from re-legalized alcohol abuse,

Like I told the other guy, then ban alcohol. Put up or shut up.

[A2J]

"Now... do you think it is a false choice to have to pick between the current glaring inequities, burdensome costs, and the full range of violations of civil rights that are a result of the "Drug War", or the greatly accelerated decline of the society, greatly increased public health problems, wider economic dislocation and weakness due to lower productivity, and further destruction of the American family that would be the result of national decriminalization or worse, legalization of all drugs? Or would it just be easier to pretend that none of this will happen, despite generations of clear evidence resulting from re-legalized alcohol abuse, narrow the argument to only concern marijuana, and proceed with what seems to be the eventual fate of the United States... drug based decrepitude?"

Superby said!

Your post illustrates the precarious position this nation would be in if the libertarians' greatest dream (i.e., "do whatever you want," "moral relativism," "no government," etc.) is ever realized. While claiming to "speak for the Fathers," libertarians will never admit that the Fathers would never have envisioned an America where there are no laws, no borders, and no accepted standard of morality. Instead, they stealthily embrace the opinions of liberal courts to hide behind while claiming to be true "patriots." HOGWASH!!!

Like it or not, if we choose to live in a society we all bear a degree of responsibility to ensure its survival and prosperity. Libertarians reject that notion, inventing an insane notion of "personal sovereignty," again refusing to accept that "no man is an island" and the responsiibility that comes with being a member of society.

Libertarianism, are at least the sick brand that sendtoscott and others advance here on FR, is an insidious and deadly plague that will eradicate all that the Founders wished to establish.

Freedom rationed responsibly is freedom guaranteed.