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I've seen this theme a hundred times since the attack. It's always some variation of "Those who would yield freedom for safety deserve neither." While I believe that completely, just what rights have we been asked to give up? It's true, the "Office of Homeland Security" has an ominous, Teutonic ring to it. And with a McCain conservative like Tom Ridge running it, I'm even more nervous. But to date, there have been no incursions into private rights, no additional layers of bureaucracy to drill through, no black-clad Gestapo agents kicking in doors in the middle of the night.

"Homeland Security" has taken a lot of forms over the years. From the National Guard to the FBI, it's nothing new. This federalizes that function, to be sure, and it is rife with potential for abuse. But so far, I've seen nothing but paranoid ravings about what "could" happen. Nothing HAS.

But so far, I've seen nothing but paranoid ravings about what "could" happen. Nothing HAS.

Should we wait until it does or try to stop abuses of power before then? Can we un-kill Vicky Weaver? Can we un-incinerate the kids at Waco?

Open your eyes, our freedoms have been eroded many times recently by the Federal Government and not even noticed by the people that typically look for these types of things.

1. Picture recognition software placed on the streets of America. 2. Wiretaps have become easier and more readily used in the last few decades. 3. Does Carnivore ring a bell at all? 4. Waco, Ruby Ridge, and do you think that those people's rights were not infringed at all? Typically, there is usually a trial before anything such as a death penalty can be given. Look, this thread was put up as a warning and to encourage people to give extra thought to the idea of personal security. I believe everything in moderation even in regards to this subject and the Federal Government has not had a successful interpretation of the meaning of this value.

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty; it is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." --William Pitt

"Perhaps it is a universal truth that the loss of liberty at home is to be charged to provisions against danger, real or pretended, from abroad." --James Madison