[Rebeckie]

Open your eyes, our freedoms have been eroded many times recently by the Federal Government and not even noticed by the people that typically look for these types of things.

1. Picture recognition software placed on the streets of America. 2. Wiretaps have become easier and more readily used in the last few decades. 3. Does Carnivore ring a bell at all? 4. Waco, Ruby Ridge, and do you think that those people's rights were not infringed at all? Typically, there is usually a trial before anything such as a death penalty can be given. Look, this thread was put up as a warning and to encourage people to give extra thought to the idea of personal security. I believe everything in moderation even in regards to this subject and the Federal Government has not had a successful interpretation of the meaning of this value.

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty; it is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." --William Pitt

"Perhaps it is a universal truth that the loss of liberty at home is to be charged to provisions against danger, real or pretended, from abroad." --James Madison

[IronJack]

Are all these warning signs? Yes. Are these inherently restrictions on civil liberty? No. With the exception of the exectuions at Ruby Ridge and Waco, these are simply the latest generation of crime-fighting tools, being used by the same league that has used such tools for centuries. Even the executions aren't completely novel; I remember Melvin Purvis executing John Dillinger in a hail of bullets on a Chicago street. And if Pinkerton had had GPS surveillance, the James Bros. probably wouldn't have robbed so many trains.

My whole point was that the mere existence of a "Homeland Security" department is ominous, but not necessarily a priori evidence that the govt. is out to "get us."

Maybe you've got YOUR eyes open wide enough to see things that aren't even there.