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To: another1
Far right: The tinfoil crowd who believes last weeks events were staged to create another attack on the constitution to take away further rights. The overly conspiracy driven individuals who think the government is always "out to get them".
I have no problem with dissent. Intelligent dissent. I have no problem with humor. Warped or otherwise. I do have a problem with those that are challenged on their points, do not answer them, then accuse the other parties of being extremists, or not worthy of being part of the FR debate because they do not fit "the mold" that many believe to be protoypical of a FReeper. I also do not believe in surrendering one's beliefs to any political party. God knows, I have not. I've quit 3 parties in my life time and will probably remain independent in further elections until someone comes along with a commitment and belief system that are consistent with my own.
289 posted on 09/24/2001 11:38:21 AM PDT by Nuke'm Glowing
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To: Nuke'm Glowing
Far right: The tinfoil crowd who believes last weeks events were staged to create another attack on the constitution to take away further rights. The overly conspiracy driven individuals who think the government is always "out to get them".

I can't speak for others, but here's my take. Right here in the Detroit area last week, a couple was arrested for collecting "donations" for WTC victims - when they were actually pocketing the money. I keep hearing and reading cautionary warnings about these sort of scams all the time.

Now, did this pond scum "stage" the terrorist attacks to make a few bucks? I don't think so.

Were they callous, self-serving, opportunistic and just plain evil enough to take advantage of the suffering of their countrymen in order to get what they wanted? In a heartbeat.

I see many of our politicians exactly the same way. All the intrusive, constitution shredding, draconian legislation that members of this forum have poured blood, sweat and tears into fighting for years, is being proposed all over again! Why?

Because they "staged" the attacks? No.

Because they are morally bankrupt enough to use such a tragedy to score some mileage on the very same agenda they have been advancing for years? You betcha.

Do they percieve a general population so maleable with the emotions of grief and horror and outrage that they will accept measures which would have gotten these same politicians dragged from their offices by their earlobes a few weeks ago? Oh yeah.

Let's put it this way. I am a 5'1" small framed woman. My Congress-creep is the not-so-estimable David Bonior. Up until 8:45 am on September 11, 2001, I would never have trusted that collectivist, socialist S.O.B. half as far as I could drop kick his arse. Same for other nearby representatives such as John Conyers and Sander Levin. Now, for some reason I should trust that they suddenly have the best interests of our nation (instead of their own interests) at heart? That they are now competent enough to participate in crucial decision making that will affect my life and country forever? (Hell, I don't even think Conyers can read at a sixth grade level.)

Does this make me eligible for a tin foil hat? Does it make me un-American? I don't think so. It means two things:

1. I continue, as always, to be a patriotic, vigilant, and responsible citizen. I have not, and will not ever permit the emotional aftermath of any tragedy to compromise that.

2. I have not bumped my head recently.

300 posted on 09/24/2001 12:15:28 PM PDT by another1
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To: Nuke'm Glowing
Far right: The tinfoil crowd who believes last weeks events were staged to create another attack on the constitution to take away further rights. The overly conspiracy driven individuals who think the government is always "out to get them".

Who suggested the WTC event was 'staged' in order for the government to take away liberties? Who?

It figures you'd start out your post with such a ridiculous proposition. The FACT is, it doesn't MATTER who 'staged' the WTC/Pentagon attacks. What matters is that the government WILL use it as an excuse to take away freedoms and liberties. The Homeland Security office is now one more budget item that wasn't there last year. The suggestion of national ID cards wasn't on the table last year, either, but now it gets all sorts of play, as does facial-recognition hardware in airports.

NO ONE is suggesting the WTC/Pentagon were 'staged'. But some of us ARE suggesting that it will inevitably result in the loss of liberties.

Believing so doesn't make me a pansy, it doesn't make me a peacenik, it doesn't make me Un-American, and it doesn't make me Muslim.

It makes me concerned about our country's future.

And, plainly, even the name "Homeland Security" is starting to get a little Orwellian.

As for censorship, there do seem to be an awful lot of posts that are pulled for what could best be described as 'matters of taste' as opposed to 'matters of security' or 'matters of slander'. And I wonder if THAT situation is going to get better, or worse. Just MHO.

374 posted on 09/24/2001 2:20:19 PM PDT by zoyd
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