Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: Nephi
Here's some calm reaosned discussion for you.

We are not "empire building" in the Middle East. We have vital, national interests in that part of the world because we get most of our oil from there. We also have an interest in supporting democracy wherever it tries to establish itself.

Islamic terrorists are at war with us and everything we believe in. It's a matter of national interest and self-preservation. We have no intent or desire to establish an American "empire," as Pat constantly proclaims.

In short, he's wrong from the beginning. Sounds like a good title for his next book.

10 posted on 09/18/2001 7:01:01 AM PDT by Cincinatus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies ]


To: Cincinatus
Osama Bin Laden is part of a number of Arabic Muslims who wish to overthrow the current regimes in Saudi Arabia and other royal or pro Western Arab states.

America is seen as the main obstacle, this is due to the fact that America is as you pointed out reliant on Middle Eastern oil therefore America is a major stumbling bloc to a united Islamic Nation.

Therefore America is seen as a major target, with attacks such as these what they hope to achieve is one of two objectives.

Objective 1 America realises that her support of the pro Western States will be too costly therefore she will withdraw all military assets from the Middle East allowing the Islamic fundamentalists to carry out 1978/79 style Iranian revelations.

Or Objective 2, due to the scale of the atrocity the American government is forced by public opinion to carry out large scale reprisals against a number of Muslim countries, these operations will be used as the basis for more anti American propaganda with the Muslim countries and so hopefully inflame the Muslim population enough to carry out 1978/79 style Iranian revelations.

The outcome is to either push the west out of the Middle East or encourage the West to leave, they then hope to create a Super Islamic state.

I agree with Pat Buchanan analyst that with American withdrawal America will no longer be a target. This is because there are too many other major obstacles to achieving such an Arabic super state.

Saddam himself is a major obstacle unless he accepted as the leader of such a state he will not serve under another leader.

Other obstacles is the mutual suspicion each Arabic country has for each other, Israel has exploited this in her various fight for survival on more than one occasion.

The various differing forms of Islam and political leaderships in each of the states are another major obstacle.

Without American support and aid the Middle East will fragment into a number of regional wars that will make the Balkans look like a walk in the park.

Many see this as a good aim as the Arabs will be too busy slaughtering each other to worry about the West.

This is one idea being mooted about as a last resort.

Tony

67 posted on 09/18/2001 7:54:10 AM PDT by tonycavanagh
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies ]

To: Cincinatus
Is it incumbent on us to help establish a Democracy in a country where 51% on the residents want it? How about 49%? In the Middle East, there may be only 25% of the citizenry that are educated well, and know the difference between governments.

I may be flamed for saying this but Pat is right, this is a internal struggle for us, not an external one. We must of course not let these evil deeds go unpunished, but to declare war against a foe that has no nation, no shore to land on, no one that can surrender, is not winnable by definition. We can only kill those we find, or indiscriminantly kill thousands or millions. That will only breed more hatred for us, and when we bore ourselves with this, and terrorist acts become rare, how do we sustain the will to fight?

Before we undertake this war we must first secure our homeland, our base. We can only do this by making sure there are few terrorist or traitors among us.

First we must secure our borders (Pats way with a fence), make sure the ships and planes coming in are free of danger and enemies, then evict all who are not citizens, ALL of them.

How can we fight a war without first evicting all possible terrorists, and jailing any traitors? We can't. The sight of our troops overseas, fighting battles, while the terrorists poison water, release biologicals, and blow up power lines at home, will be unique in American history. So it is at home the first battles must be fought.

One thing that bugs me about people with your opinions, how is Buchanan at once and war monger, and an isolationist. It seems he has been called both during his public career.

I write to you because your opinions are usually reasoned, so explain a policy that will 1) punish our enemies 2) reduce or get rid of the danger 3) not reduce our rights at home 4) not bring into effect a southern fence, or tighter restrictions on immigration [Pats main push I believe.]

85 posted on 09/18/2001 8:08:45 AM PDT by jeremiah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies ]

To: Cincinatus
We are not "empire building" in the Middle East. We have vital, national interests in that part of the world because we get most of our oil from there. We also have an interest in supporting democracy wherever it tries to establish itself.

First, we can get a hell of a lot more oil domestically. Second define our "interest in supporting democracy".....it's none of our damn business. You laud the term "democracy". Our founding fathers hated the term. Why would you not prefer to fight tyranny inside our borders, as opposed to spending American blood and treasure in global 911 calls?

If, for example, the Somalian's want a "democracy", let them fight for it on their own.....our ancestors did.

Regards

J.R.

87 posted on 09/18/2001 8:09:46 AM PDT by NMC EXP
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies ]

To: Cincinatus
"We are not "empire building" in the Middle East. We have vital, national interests in that part of the world because we get most of our oil from there. We also have an interest in supporting democracy wherever it tries to establish itself. "

Your reasoning creates a circular reference. "We have an interest in supporting democracy" is NeoCon code for empire building. That is the excuse to interfere everywhere, everywhere, every time. Your rationale that we "get most of our oil from there" is the self perpetuating fact that allows you to think your not really meddling.

Take a second for logical thought. Wouldn't it be better if we extricated ourselves from this morass once the new war is won ? The correct answer would not elude even the most simple minded second grader.
113 posted on 09/18/2001 8:34:52 AM PDT by major-pelham
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies ]

To: Cincinatus
>> We have vital, national interests in that part of the world because we get most of our oil from there. <<

Agreed. So why do we pursue an Israel "Uber alles" policy there?

155 posted on 09/18/2001 9:19:47 AM PDT by jaime1959
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies ]

To: Cincinatus
We are not "empire building" in the Middle East. We have vital, national interests in that part of the world because we get most of our oil from there. We also have an interest in supporting democracy wherever it tries to establish itself.

Damn the caribou, the grizzly bear and the two legged lizzard eco-nazi that got us in this mess.

We should not be dependant on foriegn oil!

Drill in Alaska and off the coast of California NOW!
245 posted on 09/18/2001 10:20:08 PM PDT by off-roader
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson