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America Approves Limits to Liberties
The Detroit News ^ | September 16, 2001 | Cameron McWhirter

Posted on 09/16/2001 3:59:40 AM PDT by riley1992

Edited on 05/25/2004 3:02:58 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Those limits to liberties are acceptable to Metro Detroiters and most other Americans. A Detroit News poll Thursday found that 88 percent of Metro Detroiters are willing to "accept restrictions on movements such as metal detectors and military personnel in public places" to increase the nation's security from terrorist attacks.


(Excerpt) Read more at detroitnews.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
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To: verity
You couldn't be more wrong about riley.
121 posted on 09/16/2001 10:08:09 AM PDT by He Rides A White Horse
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To: riley1992
whatever. i never have and never will approve limits to my liberties. i have no liberty flying commercially, so i fly myself. i have no liberty living in urban areas, so i live rural. i have no liberty crossing america's borders, i'll move my family out of america while i still can. my liberties have nothing to do with america alone.
122 posted on 09/16/2001 10:08:39 AM PDT by Anonymous2
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To: vedicstar; Jim Robinson
The foreign policy of the USA helped create Bin Laden. It is the truth whether you wish to face it or not. Or don't you want to realize your political heroes have made gigantic mistakes (Bin Laden was CIA).

You make for an interesting study in moral-liberal ideology. You come here to FR with chips on your shoulder, slamming Christians and Christianity, conservatives, the U.S. government, you decry laws against drug abuse and drug trafficking. You make excuses for terrorism and mass murder, and then you make homosexual jokes about other people's rectums.

123 posted on 09/16/2001 10:12:27 AM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: vedicstar
First, I never said there was no help in getting him started. I said it is his own fanatical will and determination that led him to where he is now.

Or don't you want to realize your political heroes have made gigantic mistakes

Please be so kind as to tell me just who my 'politcal heroes' are. I don't seem to remember ever telling you that information so this ought to be good.

124 posted on 09/16/2001 10:13:45 AM PDT by riley1992
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To: riley1992
And Keep in Mind....There 'is' No Declaration of War!.... By The Congress or Senate....I Believe The RAT FINK aka: Clinton 'Knew' of This Long Planned for 'Fun' Surprize....
125 posted on 09/16/2001 10:14:15 AM PDT by mr spike
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To: Cultural Jihad
I really do not mean to be rude, but there is just no making sense of your statements. If there is a point to them, please state it clearly. Then offer some logical reasoning to back it up. Thank you.
126 posted on 09/16/2001 10:15:06 AM PDT by another1
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To: Cultural Jihad
libertarians are just the shock-troops of socialism. Wittingly or not, they are advancing socialism with their moral-liberal and moral-anarchic ideology.

ib·er·tar·i·an (lbr-târ-n) n. 1.One who advocates maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state. 2.One who believes in free will.

127 posted on 09/16/2001 10:20:14 AM PDT by sc01
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To: ResistorSister
We want them to protect this country's borders. But we will protect our states, cities, and towns.

Yes, I think the US government was too focused on American citizens having guns etc and meanwhile they let the terrorists come and spread throughout the entire US and have access to all kinds of information. They failed to protect us and that must change.

128 posted on 09/16/2001 10:20:28 AM PDT by FITZ
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To: sc01
governments sole purpose is to defend our land and our God given freedoms

Our government took our freedom and liberty and gave them to our enemies to use against us. They were allowed free entry into the US and given the same freedoms as citizens and now they betrayed us.

129 posted on 09/16/2001 10:23:00 AM PDT by FITZ
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To: Cultural Jihad
They don't have respect for the rules of this forum or the rights and property of others.

Promoting their "ideology" is paramount.

That isn't going to change.

130 posted on 09/16/2001 10:24:16 AM PDT by Roscoe
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To: riley1992
11 of the 12 points listed have nothing to do with civil liberties.
131 posted on 09/16/2001 10:24:55 AM PDT by ethical
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To: riley1992
You forgot one more liberty removed: NO AMERICAN flags in the work place, it might offend someone. This company is doing exactly that! Anti-American Company Removes American Flags from Cubicles and Fires Employee For Giving Blood!
132 posted on 09/16/2001 10:26:07 AM PDT by PatrioticAmerican
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To: another1
What are the terms of this "war"? How will we know when it is over? How is victory defined?

Very astute questions. We accept all manner of government control and dictatorial interference in nearly everything in time of war, because we are afraid (in theory) of losing the war and suffering worse consequences, and because these measures are understood to be temporary, and that normal civil liberties will return when the war ends and peace returns.

But a "war on terrorism" is not a real war: there is no enemy state to defeat, no armies to rout or navies to sink. There is no way of knowing when we have "won" or when we have "lost", and, like the "war on poverty" or "war on drugs", there are heavy incentives for the State to perpetuate the war indefinitely, since "winning" the war would eliminate the "emergency", return us to a state of civil liberty, and greatly curtail the empire-building of career bureaucrats and the power of those who control the State.

Ergo, alarm bells should be going off in our heads when we hear people say "this was an act of war, not terrorism" and that, therefore, we should have a formal declaration of war "against terrorism". A formal declaration of war would allow, under color of law, the complete repudiation of what remains of our Constitutional liberties. It is a very bad idea.

How the writers of the Constitution must be rolling over in their graves, when it comes to what we have done to the Constitutional power to declare war. We have gone for over 50 years without formally declaring war, instead engaging in nearly constant warfare under cover of "police actions" of various sorts, sometimes with a figleaf from the UN, sometimes without. Now that the "war" has come home to us, we want to blow the dust off of the Constitution, revive the concept of a formal declaration of war, but not, as the Founders intended, against an enemy state, but against a concept ("terrorism") and against an amorphous band of stateless individual enemies.

Since you can't formally defeat a concept and force it to sign a peace treaty, the logical outcome of such a war is a state of permanent war, with all that that implies. Harry Elmer Barnes, the historian, was right when he labeled the post-WWII liberal elite's foreign policy as one of "perpetual war for perpetual peace". We might be headed towards something like George Orwell's "1984", where war is a perpetual state of affairs justifying anything, and is taken as normality. Within twenty years of such "perpetual war normality", no one will remember that a peaceful, Constitutional America ever existed, or what it was like. In fact, few now living remember it.

133 posted on 09/16/2001 10:26:58 AM PDT by Vast Buffalo Wing Conspiracy
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Comment #134 Removed by Moderator

To: Vast Buffalo Wing Conspiracy
Very astute questions.

Thank you for the compliment, and for your excellent articulation of exactly why the alarm bells ARE going off - loud and clear - for some of us.

135 posted on 09/16/2001 10:30:40 AM PDT by another1
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To: vedicstar
Perhaps one day I will have the opportunity to meet you face to face.

LOL

136 posted on 09/16/2001 10:32:37 AM PDT by Roscoe
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To: Kevin Curry
I for one am satisfied with our blessed constitution. We don't need restrictions on our liberties! We should go after the bad guys and girls who break the law not the law abiding citizens which represents the majority of Americans. Please let's not engage in the "stinking thinking" of the gun control wackos who would disarm law abiding people and place us at the mercy of the criminal.
137 posted on 09/16/2001 10:35:21 AM PDT by poet
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To: riley1992
I have been sharing this comment in various places where appropriate, and it is especially appropriate to share it here. The author was deemed a liberal in his own time, but by today's standards he would be considered downright conservative:

We can deny our history and our heritage, but we cannot escape responsibility for the result. As a nation, we have come into our full inheritance at a tender age. We proclaim ourselves, as indeed we are, the defenders of freedom, what's left of it - but we cannot defend freedom abroad by abandoning it at home. - Edward R. Murrow.
138 posted on 09/16/2001 10:35:43 AM PDT by BluesDuke
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To: Kevin Curry
"I am confident that any legislation that transgresses Constitutional limits will be duly challenged and struck down."

What makes you confident of that? It isn't challanged in times of peace and I think it's less likely to be challanged in times of war.

139 posted on 09/16/2001 10:37:32 AM PDT by NC_Libertarian
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Comment #140 Removed by Moderator


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