Why the towers collapsed: hit at vulnerable point

Salon ^ | 9/11/01 | Bill Wyman

[Looking for Diogenes]

Speaking of heat damage, I have read reports that the airplanes' "Black Boxes" are not likely to have survived the fires.

[George W. Bush]

Both my home owners policy and life insurance policies state they do not pay for acts of terrorism or war. If the insurance companies don't pay, I'm sure Uncle Sam will just inflate the currency and pay all the bills. Did you see the list of all the insurance company headquarters that were in the WTC? The short list seemed to include over a dozen, including some pretty major names. The insurance industry may reconsider whether to pay on terrorism disasters since they've now been victims. I think insurance company executives got hit hard today.

[yooper]

"The collapse mechanism you suggest does not account for the hour or so that passed between collision and collapse."

The hour which passed was the time needed for the steel members to heat up and transfer heat to other steel members and flammables. Once the crash level floors lost their structural integrity, the building was doomed to cascade failure.

[El Gato]

Replace the rubble of the WTC with a memorial park, then burn down the UN building and make that into a memorial park as well.

Burn it down? How about a fuel air explosive bombs guided into several windows, then follow up with 2000 lb Laser Guided Bombs, two to four should do the job. Record and sell the videos. I'd pay good money to see that, real good. Put the money into the military, both that from sales and rental of the videos, and from that which we would have spent on UN dues and other indirect taxes.

[William_Rusher]

Your explanation while plausible requires the assumption that in order for the terrorism to be successful that the buildings needed to fall.

My opinion is that just making impact with one of the jets into one of the towers is a major success for the terrorists. The buildings falling is gravy to these folks. It doesn't take much planning or sophistication to make contact. I can teach a monkey to fly a helicopter. I have never flown a plane. If you asked me to become a human bomb for your holy war, I am sure I can teach anyone to take my place and stear a jumbo jet towards a building as large as the WTC. If you can drive a car, you can steer a plane. You can't land one or take off in one but you can damn sure steer it in a general direction.

[George W. Bush]

I hppe Bush gets together with Port Authority to rebuild the World Trade Center-updated as the tallest building in New York before the end of his administration. No, let's not tach the sheeple the government is supposed to do such things. Leave it to the private sector.

[Yooper_Hondo]

Thanks, I was wondering what you thought.

Now, does anyone know all the businesses that were housed in these buildings?

[Yooper_Hondo]

Thanks, I was wondering what you thought.

Now, does anyone know all the businesses that were housed in these buildings?

[Chemnitz]

I am not an expert. Some think that the persons flying showed a fair amount of expertise.

[tallhappy]

I think they learned a lesson from the truck bomb which created a large crater but didn't bring it down.Someone with archectural training taught them how.

I think so. I think that there may have been bombs set as well.

The coordination of the attacks and the sophistication, like having structural engineers involved in planning underscores the seriousness of this.

I don't think President Bush or any politician has yet enunciated this, or perhaps do not fully grasp it.

[Alberta's Child]

The most important issue for all these insurance companies is the dollar value of all other claims they must pay. Oddly enough, the fact that this has been an unusually quiet hurricane season in the U.S. will probably help them. Investment bankers often buy insurance stocks at a time like this, since the public perception of the insurance industry's financial state will generally be worse than reality.

An endless series of small claims (as in a hurricane) is usually worse than one large claim, though in this case we are talking about a $3.2-billion office complex, thousands of lives, and a sh!tload of financial chaos as well.

[George W. Bush]

Speaking of heat damage, I have read reports that the airplanes' "Black Boxes" are not likely to have survived the fires. Maybe. The video showed that the second plane virtually went through the whole building. So there's a chance that the box could have been thrown clear. Those boxes are incredibly tough. If they are there, we'll find them pretty quick.

[Alberta's Child]

The Port Authority of NY & NJ was a major occupant (that was why they built it in the first place), as was Morgan Stanley Dean Witter.

[OldFriend]

I hope Bush kicks everyone out of the UN building and takes it over to replace the WTC............

[El Gato]

yes, that is the only sophistication and it is a fairly major one -- indicating some money and major friendlies.

Not neccessarily. Training on a much smaller aircraft, with maybe some time in a simple mock up or computer sim, would be sufficient. Now if they had to be able to take off or land, that would be one thing, but to just fly the thing into a building, not nearly so difficult. However the organiztion and logistics aspects, as opposed to traing the kamikazes, might require more resources than even OBL could muster.

[Fury]

ABC news has some architectural experts who are in agreement that the fires in this building (1500 degrees F) caused the steel to weaken and it then became unable to support the weight once the tensile strength of the steel was depleted. So, the structure was sound enough to withstand the impact. It was just that the loadbearing steel was weakened by the fire. When the top floors fell, it was too much stress for the lower structure and the whole thing collapsed straight down without tipping. Straight down in a pile. I hope the CVR and FDR boxes from these aircraft somehow were thrown clear and survived. I would expect that they could yield some valuable data, perhaps some final statement from those involved. However, if they were subjected to those temps, they are gone...

[George W. Bush]

If you can drive a car, you can steer a plane. You can't land one or take off in one but you can damn sure steer it in a general direction. Maybe. Several of these planes had sharp and erratic course changes and changes in their velocity. Sort of abrupt for professional pilots from the impression I get.

Peter Jennings and the ex-government officials kept expressing puzzlement over this matter and seem to assume that only professional pilot training or at least professional simulator experience would be required.

I'm thinking that some of the flight simulator software might be able to give a private pilot a pretty good feel for the responsiveness of a jumbo jet. Some of the simulators that cost $40 simulate the physics and responsiveness of jumbo jets in both cargo and passenger configuration.

Those cheap little simulators also usually contain the graphics and instrument controls of the plane simulated. As well as geographical landmarks in major cities. I'd bet money they include the WTC in their maps. Most of them have the Statue of Liberty.

Before you laugh, remember this high-tech attack was carried out with knives on at least three of the planes. This doesn't seem to be too well-financed to me, contrary to what all the network and policy wonks keep saying.

[Sword_Svalbardt]

The weight of the falling structure caused the floors below to pancake under the load. As load bearing members were lost, the structural integrity was sacrificed, and the building collapsed upon itself

Sword

[cactmh]

there are bound to be qualified engineers in the world who hate the United States...