Posted on 09/11/2001 8:25:14 AM PDT by EternalVigilance
My apologies to the innocent victims of today's cowardly attack on our free republic, but I believe there are some questions we need to be asking ourselves right now---
When the smoke clears, and retribution is exacted, will the United States of America ever be the same?
Or will this be the perfect cover for those who would destroy what remains of our personal freedom as Americans?
Out of of fear, will the sheeple cry for even more restraints on our liberty than have already been exacted, and welcome tyranny with open arms?
I believe these are all very important questions to begin to consider on this Black Tuesday.
I hope and pray that in the days ahead, Free Republic will be a center of opposition to that move against the Bill of Rights which is almost surely to come.
HOW DOES THIS SERVE THEM?
You, yourself, keep skirting the question, IMHO.
If we change our way of life, in essence change who we (as a nation) are in reaction to this or other terrorist attacks or acts of war, then WHO WE ARE will cease to exist. WHO WE ARE will, in essence, have been murdered along with all of the other victims of this tragedy.
Were I a master terrorist, or someone interested in destroying America, I would aim at the most important thing that America has - its ideals, and the unity and devotion that such ideals have generated over the last 225 years. Cause America to turn from an open society with liberty for all into a closed, afraid society with security checkpoints everywhere, with no privacy (in the name of security, of course), with no privately-held firearms (too dangerous, don't you know), etc. etc., do these things and you've destroyed this country. We will cease to be any different from anyone else. We will, due to our great size become what the Romans became - a dictatorial empire. Not overnight, but it will happen.
The very reason for this attack was to hurt us as much as possible. It was designed to use the massive carnage and destruction to make people afraid, to give opportunistic politicians and bureaucrats the excuse to impose more and more restrictions on our existing liberties. The carnage was a secondary goal, a symbol of their success. The primary goal, the substance of their success will appear (or, hopefully, not appear) in the weeks and months ahead, when this country decides who we really are.
Read Sun Tzu - the way to destroy a powerful enemy is not to take him where he is strongest, but to hit him at a weak and unexpected point. The US is very strong, materially - second to none. We can take a physical strike like Pearl Harbor or the WTC and recover. Today we're a nation of 280 million, with the best technology in the world and no serious rival to our power. Even the loss of several cities and millions of people would, terrible as such a loss is to contemplate, be something that we could recover from (witness the Soviets, who lost 20+ million in 4 years and then rose to challenge our power for 50 years). However, we are ill-equipped to deal with a threat to our liberties from within. We already have politicians and bureaucrats who gleefully seize upon every "threat to security" to whittle away at our liberties (such as school shootings that kill less than 1/1000 the number of the WTC incident); what could be better (from this sick perspective) than to have a massively deadly event that creates fear/terror everywhere?
THIS is the danger. Not a few petty inconveniences such as waiting to pass through an X-ray machine. Any prudent person will put up with a few inconveniences to save his life. But the cumulative effect of hundreds of such "minor, small, practical steps" is to dangerously erode our liberty.
Benjamin Franklin stated that anyone willing to give up their liberty in exchange for the promise of security deserves neither. He was smarter than you or I, and I believe that his words of wisdom should be heeded.
194 Posted on 09/12/2001 09:25:57 PDT by fod
There's been so much bashing of law enforcement officers on FR lately, and that sickens me, too. If you're not one of those bashers, there is no "what of it". Instead of calling these people "heroes", I've heard too much negative about police and sheriff/deputies.
196 Posted on 09/12/2001 09:41:00 PDT by fod
You coulda fooled me; I don't see Curry's response to you. I know him, and have found him to be a rational individual.
I'm not trying to drive wedges; I'm trying to stop anyone placing blame on the US Govt; and I'll continue to do so.
Really?
You don't know a thing about me.
I have a late family member who was a highly decorated Police Officer.
I have a very good friend, drinking buddy who is a local Police officer. I have two other friends who are retired Police Officers. Notice I use the term POLICE OFFICER not LEO there is a difference. Now, through my friends I have meet many, many LEO who have the JBT mentality, wack'em and stack'em, cuff'em and stuff'em.. They're a strange jaded breed who only like and hang out with fellow JBTs. From you postings you seem to be from the JBT camp. It's not Police Officers I find distasteful. Police officers provide a valuable service to the community i.e.. Serve & Protect. Federal LEOs who kick in doors to kidnap little Elians and burn Children to death have no place in my version of America. How about your version of America?
I was thinking that myself.
You can't be serious. Why did you ever join the Marine Corps (if you are a Marine) if you have a problem with Liberty, which is THE founding principle of our Nation? We should devise ways to deal with threats against our People without taking away that which makes us Americans...
What are the odds that today's events would have happened if the U.S. government policy was limited to defending U.S. citizens' individual rights? Virtually nil.
I suppose it sounds noble that the U.S. government's military intervention in foreign affairs is effort to help them maintain or attain freedom. How much freedom has the U.S. military helped them attain? Little. What price of freedom do citizens sacrifice in this country so that citizens in other countries may have a little of it when the U.S. government is supposed to maintain U.S. citizens' freedom?
Had the mainstream media given accurate reports about the death tolls and destruction that U.S. military inflicted thru its intervention in foreign affairs, U.S. citizens would have asked themselves, what is the benefit to us for the risk a heightened probability of retaliation we are taking? Benefit? I don't think so. Sacrificed freedom is not a benefit.
Maine Inspector, I'm still waiting for you to answer: is the job of law enforcement officers to protect citizens or enforce the laws?
P.S. I have been on this forum for more than three years and your spelling is the worst I've seen. Of the six to ten posts I've responded to you, all of them have misspellings -- I don't quote but fifteen to twenty words. That is not a jab, it's a fact. The above is but 12 words, wherein 'people' and 'because' are misspelled.
THAT'S how it serves them?
You're delusional. Those types don't think in terms of damaging a national psyche -- they think in terms of how much blood they can shed!
Figures that you'd react emotionally rather than thinking/reason. I've seen you do that repeatedly on 2 out of 3 threads I've read you on -- this makes four. These people are not conspiracy nuts, they have honest concerns about many of the issues surrounding these terrorist crimes. Their own freedom is one such concern. I have pointed out to you a couple of times that I'm on to your intentional straw-man like minimizing which is a much used federal LEO tactic. Usually to flaunt an air of authority and often superiority. You are beyond arrogance in the means by which you belittle people. You claim you're an INS agent or border guard or some federal immigration agent -- obviously you took it on the chin Tuesday, September 11, 2001.
You wrote in post #16 in response to the author of the article/post: Thousands of peolple have just died, becuase you wanted a little liberty.
The above article/post was in no way a conspiracy type post. It was a person concerned for their freedom. Your backpedaling is that of a little man. A pipsqueak. Albeit, a pip with JBT power.
Thousands of people have died in many wars for liberty. I would think it would be apparent that is what I meant. You did perceive it wrong indeed. No problem.
Don't let them use this attack to take away our freedom. Under the guise of "our protection and security", naturally,
Of course, our side is having tremendous success at reminding people that liberty is worth fighting for...our President helped our cause by calling the dastardly attacks, "...an attack on freedom".
I have seen many hopeful signs this week...prayerfulness, humility and unity among the American people are all being demonstrated in every town and city in the country.
I heard a story yesterday about college students at George Washington University, who, their professors were surprised to learn, were primarily concerned that the events of Tuesday might lead to a curtailment of their rights and liberties.
It always amazes me how God is able to bring great good out of great evil.
14 years later, I think it has become obvious that the answer is “yes”.
How dare you badmouth the patriotic TSA? :p
Hindsight is 20/20 and hopefully we’re all smarter now. Back then we never even heard the phrase “Never let a crisis go to waste.”
I passed an MRAP with ‘POLICE’ printed on it the other morning. It’s a small New England town where people still leave their doors unlocked at night. Other than the occasional acts of vandalism agains mailboxes when the school year is ending, there’s little crime, but nearly everyone is armed or a hunter of some sort. Makes you wonder why the cops are getting all gear queer suddenly.
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