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Clarion Call to Christians in the Freeper Wars: How to Win the Culture War--Who, then, is Our Enemy?
Crisis Magazine ^ | Peter Kreeft

Posted on 09/10/2001 1:03:43 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM

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To: LarryLied
If you must know, I am a Unitarian. Very few on FR consider me a Christian. I do try to educate them but the religion of Jefferson, Channing, Adams and others, despite the allure of their political philosophies, does not garner me many converts.

You of all people should understand the comedy of this thread. The very people calling for unity will choke on your unitarianism, and my atheism sends them into fits of rage. The common enemy is collectivism. Collectivism of the left and collectivism of the right.

81 posted on 09/10/2001 8:17:32 PM PDT by Jolly Rodgers
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To: proud2bRC
bump for later reading
82 posted on 09/10/2001 8:20:49 PM PDT by Jack Barbara
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To: mustapha mond
IF a Godless person wanted to end his life, what argument could you give to stop him?

I would address the situation as was appropriate based upon the context. I would not rely upon a static set of words or dogma suitable for any occasion.

In the mind of the Godless we all turn back to dust and none of this makes a difference anyway.

I'm sorry that you are unable to find meaning in your life independent of a super-authority figure. Please don't presume that the rest of us suffer this shortcoming.

This logic cannot be refuted by bringing up family, friends, ect. They are not always around. Abbie Hoffman and Kurt Cobain's actions made sense if you see the world the way they saw it. I wish I could have told them they were not alone. Only with God is life sacred.

What makes you think I view life in any way remotely similar to Kurt Cobain or Abbie Hoffman? Do you view life the same as David Koresh or Joseph Smith Jr.? I'm sure you believe you hold the magic words and can summon the spirits to do your bidding, but it is more than a tad bit egotistical to think that your testimony would have effected those folks lives any more than the testimony of others who did share moments of their life.

83 posted on 09/10/2001 8:23:27 PM PDT by Jolly Rodgers
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To: Jolly Rodgers
The common enemy is collectivism. Collectivism of the left and collectivism of the right.

I was raised Mennonite, so I understand what it is like to get strange looks from the main stream. Please explain your statement above. I am curious as to your meaning.

84 posted on 09/10/2001 8:25:58 PM PDT by Jack Barbara
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To: OWK
The boogerman.

Deception is the enemy's tool

85 posted on 09/10/2001 8:26:00 PM PDT by apackof2
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To: Jack Barbara
Please explain your statement above [collectivism]. I am curious as to your meaning.

I guess I should clarify. "Forced" collectivism based upon the corrupt morality of altruism is evil. I presume that you were free to leave the Mennonite community at any time, provided you didn't violate the terms of any contract that you entered into voluntarily.

86 posted on 09/10/2001 8:34:40 PM PDT by Jolly Rodgers
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To: Belial
If there really was a Satan

You know there is Belial, or why would you take one of his names as your handle?

87 posted on 09/10/2001 8:34:44 PM PDT by apackof2
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To: Jolly Rodgers
JR, I do not believe you are like Cobain or Hoffman because you are very much still alive. The point I was making is that when the Godless hit bottom they are very much alone,when I hit bottom I can turn to the Lord.

I believe every one has a God. When Stalin died thousands commited suicide because their god was dead. The same thing happened when Hitler died. As for Koresh, Jim Jones, and other cult leaders they also saw themselves as God with disastrous results. Jeffersons god was himself and his "reason". He made a poor president because of his self worship.

Others worship themselves, alchohol, money, ect. but in the end only a faith built on a higher law foundation can survive the difficult times.

I will pray for you JR. Don't let your vast intellect obstruct your common sense.

88 posted on 09/10/2001 8:53:28 PM PDT by mustapha mond
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To: Jolly Rodgers
You of all people (as a Unitarian)should understand the comedy of this thread.

Not at all. I enjoy and support religion. The more the better. I have no problem when someone tries to convert me or gets in my face about how I am wrong. That is a good thing. I wish more would have strong opinions about religion.

There is something in it for me too. Most passionate women I have ever "known" have been devout. A love of God, a love of creation, a desire to be one with God, with life...all that translates into a happy personal life too.

Secular humanists? Atheists? Bunch of hags with sagging bags. Sour, hateful, resentful bitches. Whiners who hate life, hate being what they are, see no hope ever for anything.

Just my experience but, anecdotal as it is, it is true.

89 posted on 09/10/2001 8:55:52 PM PDT by LarryLied
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To: Jolly Rodgers
Why would a Unitarian be considered a Christian? Should a Muslim be considered a Christian?
90 posted on 09/10/2001 8:58:31 PM PDT by mustapha mond
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To: LarryLied
Maybe you can answer this one Larry, why should a Unitarian be considered a Christian?
91 posted on 09/10/2001 9:01:55 PM PDT by mustapha mond
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To: LarryLied
You call yourself a Christian to "score", my view of Unitarians has diminished further.
92 posted on 09/10/2001 9:05:33 PM PDT by mustapha mond
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To: proud2bRC
Cheers to Prof. Kreeft! Who would have thought that Boston College - that bastion of the culture of death - could produce something so auspicious.
93 posted on 09/10/2001 9:10:24 PM PDT by Antoninus
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To: proud2bRC
Sounds like he could use a phone call from an old friend about now. Just a thought.
94 posted on 09/10/2001 9:16:35 PM PDT by exit82 (BacktoLittleRockNOW!)
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To: mustapha mond
Asking Jolly Rodgers a question about Christianity is akin to asking Ted Kaczinski his opinion of technology. You'll get an answer. It'll be half-baked and profoundly ill-informed, but it will be delivered with all the smugness and sureness of an avowed Marxist propephysing the imminent collapse of capitalism.

Don't waste your time forming a question in the first place.

95 posted on 09/10/2001 9:20:22 PM PDT by Kevin Curry
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To: mustapha mond
JR, I do not believe you are like Cobain or Hoffman because you are very much still alive. The point I was making is that when the Godless hit bottom they are very much alone,when I hit bottom I can turn to the Lord.

Are you on the same path to the bottom that Cobain and Hoffman were on? Frankly, I'm pretty sure I won't find myself in circumstances similar to the ones that brought them to the decision to take their own life. If I was on that path, I don't think I would be looking to religion for an insurance policy to rescue me either. After all, if you really had faith in your God, you wouldn't be on the path of debauchery and drug abuse leading to terminal depression.

I believe every one has a God.

Yes, you religious folk always like to pretend that everyone has to think like you do. Face the fact that there are some of us who actually reject wholesale the notion of supernatural realms with mythical beings, ghosts and spirits.

When Stalin died thousands commited suicide because their god was dead. The same thing happened when Hitler died. As for Koresh, Jim Jones, and other cult leaders they also saw themselves as God with disastrous results. Jeffersons god was himself and his "reason". He made a poor president because of his self worship.

I suppose that all fits in with your religious world view, but it is a drastic misinterpretation of history.

Others worship themselves, alchohol, money, ect. but in the end only a faith built on a higher law foundation can survive the difficult times.

Some of us don't worship. We live.

I will pray for you JR. Don't let your vast intellect obstruct your common sense.

The condescension is unbecoming. If you were sincere, you would have prayed for me without making a public show of it.

96 posted on 09/10/2001 9:25:57 PM PDT by Jolly Rodgers
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To: LarryLied
Not at all. I enjoy and support religion. The more the better. I have no problem when someone tries to convert me or gets in my face about how I am wrong. That is a good thing. I wish more would have strong opinions about religion.

I neither enjoy, nor support religion, though I do agree with you that if we have to suffer it, let there be many. Whenever any one religion acquires a monopoly, it is a dark and bloody spectacle. Nevertheless, as a strong advocate of individual rights, I affirm that men must be free to think their own thoughts and also be free to communicate them so that they may be judged in the marketplace of ideas. I do not support censorship, though I do not want my government to ever participate in any form of religion of any kind.

There is something in it for me too. Most passionate women I have ever "known" have been devout. A love of God, a love of creation, a desire to be one with God, with life...all that translates into a happy personal life too.

Yeah, those catholic girls were the wildest in college, weren't they? ;-)

Secular humanists? Atheists? Bunch of hags with sagging bags. Sour, hateful, resentful bitches. Whiners who hate life, hate being what they are, see no hope ever for anything.

Oh, don't stop there. Let's go all out with the demeaning stereotypes. You really can't judge all atheists by looking at Madeleine Murray O'Hare. hehehe

Just my experience but, anecdotal as it is, it is true.

Okay, then I declare it to be true that all christian women are just like Tammi Faye Bakker. So there! hehehe

97 posted on 09/10/2001 9:32:26 PM PDT by Jolly Rodgers
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To: mustapha mond
Why would a Unitarian be considered a Christian? Should a Muslim be considered a Christian?

You would have to ask a unitarian and a muslim. I think they're all equally goofy.

98 posted on 09/10/2001 9:33:26 PM PDT by Jolly Rodgers
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To: Kevin Curry
Asking Jolly Rodgers a question about Christianity is akin to asking Ted Kaczinski his opinion of technology. You'll get an answer. It'll be half-baked and profoundly ill-informed, but it will be delivered with all the smugness and sureness of an avowed Marxist propephysing the imminent collapse of capitalism. Don't waste your time forming a question in the first place.

Oh, Kevvy-pooh. You're just miffed because I've read the Bible and know it as well as you, but don't buy into the mythical interpretation.

99 posted on 09/10/2001 9:35:11 PM PDT by Jolly Rodgers
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To: Jolly Rodgers
How nice of you to plant the seed and wait to reap the harvest. With friends like you...

Ever consider I was trying to save him from such a fate?

100 posted on 09/10/2001 10:30:32 PM PDT by Brian Kopp DPM
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