It’s not an absurd argument and I have 4 other examples that actually did happen. The US would warn Mexico and then begin a process of rapid escalation until culminating in war to stop this, as we did in Cuba, Grenada, and similar situations in Panama and Solomon Islands. No, the US would not tolerate this.
Every nation takes an interest in things that are “internal” or “sovereign” issues of another state which impacts them. If Ethiopia turns the water off, of course there will be war with Egypt, even if that water is flowing though “sovereign” Ethiopia and it’s an “internal” issue for Ethiopia.
https://www.dw.com/en/could-egypt-and-ethiopias-tensions-escalate-into-a-war/a-70211192
Rhetoric is no argument: sovereign, internal.
NATO expansion of Finland is something which some have wanted a long time, the timing was right to push for this since public support would favor this, whereas historically Finland wanted a more neutral or non-provocative position. However, you bring up a very good point. What NATO did shows how they operate, exploit every situation to the maximum and expand whenever possible. NATO never was sincere in their intentions with Russia.
Even though we claim no NATO expansion into Ukraine was never promised and we claim we want peace, and Russia started the war, this is how we dealt with Russia and our efforts to create a lasting peace: Angela Merkel said in 2022 in an interview with Die Zeit, that the Minsk agreement had been “an attempt to give Ukraine time”; Reuters reported that Ukraine used this time to strengthen its armed forces.
There is little moral argument, and NOTHING regards national security for our side. Russia is hardly the aggressor we present them as considering NATO East Expansion or the ethnic Russian issue in Eastern Ukraine we also conveniently ignore.
This is a case of “might makes right” and we are the mighty one.
We have the upper hand in EVERY respect may that be military manpower, nukes, quantity of military hardware, quality of military hardware, population, economic volume, news media, social media, technology, manufacturing base, intel service...
This is a simple case of us wanting to FORCE OUR WILL on the Russians and they surprisingly to us, pushed back.
I say and hope surprisingly, since the alternative is horrible. The alternative, and a theory I tend to believe, is that we wanted this war. We intentionally pushed things to a point where we knew a war would ensue. A war between Russia and a heavily militarized Ukraine means Russia gets bogged down and has to divert resources from their frontier nations to the Ukrainian theater of operation, and that indeed was the case early on: Wagner (basically Russia’s foreign legion), some of the air force, most of their special forces were pulled away from their frontier.
Russia will be left making a hard choice and their military posture in nations we have been trying to take for years (Syria, Libya, Venezuela) will weaken.
But it gets better. Ukraine does all the bleeding, while the Euro’s flip half of the bill!
This is a very nasty scenario, purely Machiavellian, and of course nothing anyone can prove right now (unless an insider were to come forward), but it does appear like a very probable theory based on what happened and when things happened. This amounted to waiving a red flag before the Russians and yelling “Olay”: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukrainian-president-zelenskiy-holding-talks-with-biden-adviser-says-2021-12-09/ No one can be so stupid and think the Russians will go along with this! The Russians blocked NATO expanding into the Republic of Geogia by force in 2008. They made it very clear post 2004 that what happened in the Baltic states will not happen again.
Irony: You have people today claim God is on our side, when Russia has 71% of its population identify as Christian and in the US 62%. You don’t have LGBTQIA in Russia, it’s not cool there. Abortions are FAR more restricted.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Russia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Russia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBTQ_rights_in_Russia
Part of the problem is that when talking about Russia (a lower share of their GDP under governments control before the war, i.e. a freer economy than the US) is that you’re fighting Cold War cliche’s.
Russians are still atheist communists to many people in the West (that has been beat into their heads); their women wear a headscarf and have a big mole on the end of their nose.
Facts don’t really matter here. You’re really just dealing with a hatred for Russians, usually based on some historically obsolete image or some historical perceived injustice (whatever - get over it). It would be no different than hating all Germans today because one still sees them as Nazi’s or blames them for what happened in WWII. Obviously, Germany today is politically, socially a different nation and those responsible are all dead at this point. Hating Germany or the Germans for WWII is equally idiotic with the cliche’s people peddle in this forum about the Russians.
The Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact are gone.
The atheist / Communist era is over.
Want to see something funny? Russia percent GDP controlled by government ~35% (that’s NOW, in a war!). Germany 48%.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_government_spending_as_percentage_of_GDP Where are the “means of production” controlled more by the state?
This war in Ukraine is overwhelmingly our doing. It was unnecessary, preventable, predictable, and it will also (IMHO) end in a predictable manner. I believe that while Russia is far weaker than us in every respect, we underestimated them. This war and our need for NATO East expansion was surely NOT motivated by some threat or security need on our side (we enjoy the upper hand). How you want to shove some moral calling into all of that is perplexing.
What NATO did shows how they operate, exploit every situation to the maximum and expand whenever possible.Sweden and Finland voluntarily acceded to NATO! They requested admission! Unlike Russia, which chooses instead to beat its neighbors into submission, NATO is a free and voluntary organization. Conflating that with Russia's outright imperialism is insincere.
You’re really just dealing with a hatred for Russians, usually based on some historically obsolete image or some historical perceived injustice (whatever - get over it). It would be no different than hating all Germans today because one still sees them as Nazi’s or blames them for what happened in WWII. Obviously, Germany today is politically, socially a different nation and those responsible are all dead at this point. Hating Germany or the Germans for WWII is equally idiotic with the cliche’s people peddle in this forum about the Russians.Now you really are being condescending, since you apparently think that I - who have spent my entire adult life in Germany, am married to a Russian, and have traveled extensively in Russia and Ukraine - would need "lecturing" on this.
The Soviet Union and Warsaw Pact are gone. The atheist / Communist era is over.Yeah, and in 1932, Imperial Germany was gone, the Kaiser was gone, the hated and decadent Weimar era was over, and good times were ahead!
/mordant sarcasm
Regards,