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To: Wuli
Yes. When one nation invades another the invading nation is considered the aggressor. Putin invaded Ukraine.

Wrong we started the belligerent behavior towards Russia. In 2008 Putin stated very clearly that Georgia & Ukraine were red lines as far as Putin & Russia were concerned with regards to NATO expansion.

In 2014 we executed a color revolution that eventually led to a coup d'état of the duly elected Ukrainian President, Viktor Yanukovych. You will dispute this, but you had better look up what is considered to be a coup d'état.

Ukraine is not our “proxy war”. Putin manufactured his proxy war against Ukraine in the Donbas region years before he mounted his full feldge invasion, in an attempt to weaken Urkaine and as part of trying to subvert its political system to produce leaders who would be pliable by Putin.

You apparently have no clue what a proxy war even is. Let me help you:

A proxy war is a conflict fought by one or more major powers that do not themselves become directly involved. These wars are characterized by the involvement of powerful nations that avoid direct military confrontation and orchestrate battles through surrogate forces.

Putin did not start the conflict in eastern Ukraine, he provided aide, but Putin did not start the hostilities. If he did then provide the proof.

How so?

The Minsk Agreements I & II. Germany's Angela Merkle, France's François Hollande, and Ukraine's Petro Oleksiiovych Poroshenko all admitted that they had no intention to ever implement the Minsk Agreements. That they used them only to buy time to build Ukraine's military, train & arm them because war was in their future. Because they wanted to use Ukraine as the battlefield where the hostilities would be held, and the Ukrainians would become the combatants and the fodder for the Russian military. Shortly after Russia invaded, Putin & Zelenskyy began engaging in talks for a peaceful resolution, which they had come to an agreement, that Russia would return all land thy controlled except for the Crimea, if Zelenskyy would declare Ukraine would remain neutral and not join NATO.

Then along came Boris Johnson who convinced Zelenskyy not to enter into a peace agreement claiming that Putin was a liar.

It's NATO & Ukraine who we are supplying war material & money along with other NATO nations for Ukraine to fight Russia.

79 posted on 07/13/2024 9:01:48 AM PDT by Robert DeLong
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To: Robert DeLong

“Putin did not start the conflict in eastern Ukraine, he provided aide”

Yes Putin did via subversion by Russian intelligence operatives created the “separatist” movement in eastern Ukraine. That was not “aid” he was giving, it was his proxy war against Ukraine.

“In 2014 we executed a color revolution that eventually led to a coup d’état of the duly elected Ukrainian President, Viktor Yanukovych. “

That’s Putin’s/Russian explanation of events, which ignores the Russian subversion with Yanukovych which had been taking place, and was recognized in Ukraine.

“The Minsk Agreements I & II. Germany’s Angela Merkle, France’s François Hollande, and Ukraine’s Petro Oleksiiovych Poroshenko all admitted that they had no intention to ever implement the Minsk Agreements. That they used them only to buy time to build Ukraine’s military, train & arm them because war was in their future. Because they wanted to use Ukraine as the battlefield where the hostilities would be held, and the Ukrainians would become the combatants and the fodder for the Russian military. “

Where’s the proof for all that?????

“Shortly after Russia invaded, Putin & Zelenskyy began engaging in talks for a peaceful resolution, which they had come to an agreement, that Russia would return all land thy controlled except for the Crimea, if Zelenskyy would declare Ukraine would remain neutral and not join NATO.”....”Then along came Boris Johnson who convinced Zelenskyy not to enter into a peace agreement claiming that Putin was a liar.”

“THEY” had not “come to an agreement”. The matters had been discussed but Ukraine had not made any agreement and Ukraine rejected the terms without any help from Boris Johnson.


111 posted on 07/13/2024 3:02:03 PM PDT by Wuli ( r)
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