Norway, Ireland and Spain say they are recognizing a Palestinian state, deepening Israel's isolation

AP ^ | May 22, 2024 | Joseph Wilson, Melanie Lidman, and Joseph Krauss

[C19fan]

Norway, Ireland and Spain said on Wednesday they are recognizing a Palestinian state, in a historic but largely symbolic move that deepens Israel’s isolation more than seven months into its grinding war against Hamas in Gaza.

The announcements came as the chief prosecutor of the International Criminal Court is seeking arrest warrants for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and his defense minister and the International Court of Justice is considering allegations of genocide that Israel has strenuously denied.

[DSH]

Excellent point. Israel and Jordan were set up as the two-state solution people say they support, but want us to forget has already been created.

This isn't true as a matter of historical fact. The contemporary nation-state of Jordan was established in 1946, prior to the U.N.'s partition plan for Palestine. There was no expectation at that time, for those Palestinian Arabs living west of the Jordan River -- who were themselves the descendants of people who had been living in that land for multiple generations -- that this then-new nation-state of Jordan was to be "their country" going forward. That's a myth.

There were, of course, Jews living throughout Mandatory Palestine as of 1947, and they, too, were the descendants of people who had been living in that land for multiple generations. But as of 1947, Palestinian Jews were a minority in every region of Palestine with the exception, I believe, of Jerusalem itself and its immediate environs. The 1947 U.N. partition plan established the borders of what would be the new nation-state of Israel based on those areas of Palestine that had the largest concentration of Jews (albeit, still in the minority relative to the Palestinian Arab population, even though non-native European Jews had started to emigrate into Palestine as early as post-WWI, if not earlier, as part of the Zionist enterprise).

Given this, in what way can those Palestinian Arabs currently living west of the Jordan River, descendants of those who for multiple generations had always lived in Palestine west of the river, be considered to be "Jordanians"? Again, this notion that "Jordan is the Palestinian state" is a myth and, at this point, an intentional misdirection.

Now, if somebody wants to switch gears and resort to the Bible to make the claim that "Israel rightfully belongs to the Jews," so be it. Or if, at this point, somebody wants to resort to the assertion that the "Israeli Jews" are entitled to the land outside the boundaries established by the U.N. partition plan because they "won it in a war," well, so be that too. But those are different, um, arguments.

[TexasFreeper2009]

horrid.

Those governments just gave the green light to the Muslims there to suddenly go on a rampage of rape and murder so they can be given their own country afterwards!

[PIF]

They may as well just recognize Gaza as a Palestinian state, another one would be no different.

[MrRelevant]

Unfortunately for them there is literally no such thing

[BipolarBob]

Now, if somebody wants to switch gears and resort to the Bible to make the claim that "Israel rightfully belongs to the Jews," so be it.

Yeah, that would be me.

[LS]

Ireland couldn’t find it in herself to fight Hitler in WW II; Spain was a silent partner, supplying a full division (The “Blue Division”) to the Nazis for Operation Barbarossa, and Norway briefly resisted Hiter til Vidkun Quisling handed the country over. So their track records aren’t too good.

[DSH]

Yeah, that would be me.

Well, I'm a "Bible-believing Christian" myself -- i.e., I am a disciple (if a poor one) of Jesus who believes that the Bible is the inspired word of God -- and I would disagree with that particular view/interpretation of what the Bible says with respect to this matter.

But that's fine, as far as I'm concerned, since I consider this to be an issue that is not central to the faith, that is not central to the Gospel. And so I would not wish to divide with a fellow believer who takes a different view.

What concerns me at present is that I've started to see any number of professing believers who appear to be willing to divide with me over the issue of Israel. That's unfortunate but so be it. I'd be the first to say that I consider Dispensationalist eschatology to be ludicrous poppycock, clearly a false teaching that has its unfortunate roots in Darbyite "dual covenant" heresy.

Nevertheless, I'm prepared to be charitable on this matter with those believers who extent to me the same courtesy.

[ZULU]

EUROWEENIES LIKE THE FRENCH

[T.B. Yoits]

Ireland couldn’t find it in herself to fight Hitler in WW II...

Ireland was neutral and wouldn't back Winston Churchill who, as the British Secretary of State for War, sent the Black and Tans into Ireland in 1920.

"Amicus meus, inimicus inimici mei" ("my friend, the enemy of my enemy")

[Tell It Right]

This isn't true as a matter of historical fact. The contemporary nation-state of Jordan was established in 1946, prior to the U.N.'s partition plan for Palestine.

That ignores the ongoing agreements among the nations before 1946. Read about the British Mandate at https://www.britannica.com/place/Palestine/World-War-I-and-after#ref45067.

"Although Transjordan—i.e., the lands east of the Jordan River—constituted three-fourths of the British mandate of Palestine, it was, despite protests from the Zionists, excluded from the clauses covering the establishment of a Jewish national home. On September 29, 1923, the mandate officially came into force."

Basically, Israel and Transjordan were created at that moment as a 2-state solution, but with no decision yet regarding who'd be in charge.

[ridesthemiles]

Certainly NOT the NORWAY my grandparents left behind in the 1850’s.

[Charles Martel]

Those governments just gave the green light to the Muslims there to suddenly go on a rampage of rape and murder so they can be given their own country afterwards!

Muslims living in Israel have been offered a separate state on numerous occasions and have always refused it. They want the entire place, which is in keeping with the "invade and conquer" elements of their "religion".

They really need no urging to hate Jews (or any other "infidels"), but Norway, Ireland and Spain should be loudly condemned for doing so anyway, for this will certainly encourage the rampaging, rape and murder - and not only within Israel.

[1Old Pro]

great, we’ve identified 3 countries to send all the crazed Palestinian refugees.

[DSH]

Basically, Israel and Transjordan were created at that moment as a 2-state solution, but with no decision yet regarding who'd be in charge.

This statement of yours simply isn't true. In fact, nothing in that Brittanica article to which you linked supports your view of the situation, which I take to be that the establishment of the nation-state of Jordan (or "Transjordan," as it was initially known) in 1946 -- i.e., that part of the British mandate territory east of the Jordan River -- was meant to be the "state" for the Palestinians Arabs living in that part of the British mandate west of the Jordan River. If that's what you believe (and that's what it sounds to me that you're saying), you're just wrong as a matter of historical fact.

[USA-FRANCE]

There can be only one state. There can be only one.
A two-state-solution would be like accepting the annexation of a part of Israel by radical islamic forces. That second state would be governed by Hamas.
That would evidently be a lose-lose situation for the civilized world.

[LS]

Doesn’t matter the reason. They couldn’t raise themselves to fight the worst evil of the 20th Century other than Stalin.

Bad choice.

[rmlew]

You seem confused. In 1922, the British and League of Nations partitioned Palestine creating Transjordan exclusively for the Arabs. Over 3/4 of the land of the British Mandate was set aside as an Arab state.
https://ecf.org.il/issues/issue/233
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Jordan_memorandum

As for the 1947/48 partition, the Arabs rejected it and invaded Israel. It is dead letter

[Albion Wilde]

Speaking as an Irish-American with family experience, in my observation there is a real nasty streak in the Irish character. Don’t know if it comes from centuries of isolation on a rocky island or the poverty from trying to farm such land; but it’s going to take generations to breed it out, if ever. Maybe the best and brightest genetic material left during the Potato Famine.

How can a supposedly Christian-heritage nation do this to Israel? I guess Biblical illiteracy went along with the rest of the cultural deprivation.

I once dated a genuine Irishman here in America. He spoke with contempt of many of the bone-headed, mule-stubborn traits, referring to his own people as either “lace-curtain” (bourgeois) or “shanty” (ignorant or poor) Irish. After hearing this from him countless times, I asked him how he referred to upper-class Irish.

“English,” he replied.

[Publius]

...there is a real nasty streak in the Irish character.

It was explained to me years ago as follows:

An American sees the big house on the hill owned by a rich man and says, "Someday I'm going to live in that house."

An Irishman sees that big house on the hill owned by the rich man and says, "Someday I'm going to get that bastard."

[rmlew]

You should look into immigration into Ireland, demographics of the ROI, and speech codes there. Ireland is run by a bunch of traitors who would see the native Irish become a despised minority in their homeland, and are trying to stop people from talking about it.

Virtually all of the population growth in Ireland now comes from non-Irish. Native Irish will lose population over the next two generations as Irish fertility rate is no 1.7 children per woman. Meanwhile, Ireland took in over 81,000 non-Irish in 2023 That's 1.57% of the population of Ireland in one year. To put it another way, in 2023-2024, Ireland has already gone from being 78% native to 76% native.