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Europe says goodbye to natural gas for good: the superturbine that will produce the energy substitute
ecoticias ^ | 05 17 2024 | D. García

Posted on 05/20/2024 6:24:05 AM PDT by yesthatjallen

click here to read article


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Too bad it takes more energy to produce and have enough hydrogen to be used as a fuel, than the energy produced once the explosive chemical reaction in a turbine or cylinder takes place.


41 posted on 05/20/2024 8:23:23 AM PDT by USCG SimTech
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To: PIF

The hydrogen mines are all going to be up and running within the next decade. Or so. Maybe.

Obtaining useful energy from a perpetual motion machine is a much easier engineering problem to solve.

BURN the hydrogen? Isn’t it simpler to run it through a fuel cell, and generate the electricity directly? No heat pollution, and the solution is much more elegant.


42 posted on 05/20/2024 8:29:53 AM PDT by alloysteel (Most people slog through life without ever knowing the wonders of true insanity.)
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To: Reily

“Could it be that pure hydrogen as opposed to a mixture causes too much wear through metal embrittlement!”

I imagine so. The article gives next to no specifics.


43 posted on 05/20/2024 8:30:26 AM PDT by cymbeline (we saw men break out of a concentration camp.”)
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To: yesthatjallen

I’m old enough to remember when “H” was street slang for Heroin.

Now it’s going to mean just another expensive addiction.


44 posted on 05/20/2024 8:31:29 AM PDT by PLMerite ("They say that we were Cold Warriors. Yes, and a bloody good show, too." - Robert Conquest )
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To: PIF
"And how much energy is needed to produce burnable Hydrogen? Is it a core energy like coal and nuclear? "

Good question, all the methods I have seen to produce H require the same energy to make H you get back when you burn it.
Plus hydrogen gas is hard to store or liquefy.

45 posted on 05/20/2024 8:33:47 AM PDT by HangThemHigh (Entropy is not what it used to be.)
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To: yesthatjallen

This person needs to place the blotter acid on the table and just back away. Basic energy knowledge passed this person by.


46 posted on 05/20/2024 8:37:47 AM PDT by VTenigma (Conspiracy theory is the new "spoiler alert")
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To: yesthatjallen

Where are they going to get the hydrogen? OH yeah, right, drill for it. Never mind that after drilling wells all over the world for 40 years I never once encountered any hydrogen. NEVER. Good luck with that.


47 posted on 05/20/2024 8:43:15 AM PDT by Sequoyah101 (The Government that got us in this mess is not the Government that can get us out of it.)
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To: yesthatjallen

These people run in circles. It is no different than the clowns that connect an alternator to a generator as an infinite source of energy. Where is the H2 coming from? These articles are always incomplete. Ass, cash, or energy, nothing comes for free.


48 posted on 05/20/2024 8:43:16 AM PDT by Dennis M.
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To: ProtectOurFreedom

“Hydrogen gas forms explosive mixtures with air in concentrations from 4-74%” (Wikipedia), making leaks especially dangerous.


49 posted on 05/20/2024 9:16:29 AM PDT by powerset
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To: alloysteel

The whole problem with this is creating some sort container that H cannot leak through. Creating that container also consumes energy from extraction to manufacture.


50 posted on 05/20/2024 9:24:30 AM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now its your turn)
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To: Myrddin

It’s really quite simple. Just get an Obama appointed judge to repeal the first and second laws of thermodynamics.


51 posted on 05/20/2024 9:46:36 AM PDT by charleywhiskey
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To: ProtectOurFreedom

Hydrogen leaks
bkmk


52 posted on 05/20/2024 9:56:38 AM PDT by linMcHlp
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To: charleywhiskey
It’s really quite simple. Just get an Obama appointed judge to repeal the first and second laws of thermodynamics.

Why stop there? Gravity seems to be an impediment. Ban it.

53 posted on 05/20/2024 10:02:11 AM PDT by Myrddin
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To: PIF

Yes. Hydrogen embrittlement of metals is a serious problem. Metals weaken significantly when exposed to H2 for long periods. So simple high pressure steel tanks are out of the question.


54 posted on 05/20/2024 10:06:49 AM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom (“When exposing a crime is treated like a crime, you are being ruled by criminals” – Edward Snowden)
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To: Cletus.D.Yokel
Haven’t we already reached “peak hydrogen”?

We have ENORMOUS supplies of hydrogen, most of it conveniently packaged in the H2O molecule. Extracting it from said molecule ... now that's the trick, isn't it?

55 posted on 05/20/2024 10:08:39 AM PDT by NorthMountain (... the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed)
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To: yesthatjallen

The Interstate power project (IPP) in Utah is already building a H2 powered power plant. Uses Japanese turbines.

See https://www.ipautah.com/ipp-renewed/

2 x 400 MW solar farms run a set of massive crackers, the H2 produced goes into a salt dome for storage, then use.

All of this expensive power will go to Calif - cause Green and all. LOL for their cost.


56 posted on 05/20/2024 10:08:43 AM PDT by ASOC (This space for rent)
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To: PLMerite
If it’s invisible, is it really “light”?

Yes.

From DC to gamma rays, it's all "light".

And now you know.

57 posted on 05/20/2024 10:12:43 AM PDT by NorthMountain (... the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed)
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To: yesthatjallen; All
Little known fact -- large commercial AC generators in power plants are cooled with hydrogen. There are big benefits to cooling generators with hydrogen rather than air. Because of reduced windage losses and improved heat transfer characteristics, hydrogen cooled generators are 30% smaller than air cooled generators.

BUT, the amount of hydrogen needed to cool a generator is a minuscule fraction of what would be needed to fuel the turbine. For some good insights on power plants safely handle hydrogen and the attendant risks, see "Cooling generators with hydrogen: Safe handling practices."
Power Engineering Magazine
June 23, 2022

Imagine scaling those hydrogen handling practices to utility scale generation!

A couple of interesting items from the article...

"Because hydrogen molecules are tiny, it’s virtually impossible to avoid leakage. Because of the small molecule size, there is a constant flow of hydrogen into and from the seal oil system. This is unavoidable, so it is important to have a means of continuous liberation, or “detraining” the hydrogen from the oil. The generator shaft seals by design are not 100% “leak proof,” so gas must be added regularly to maintain the proper pressure and purity. Minor leakage from the shaft seals usually does not present any hazards because most turbine and generator areas are well-ventilated, so the gas escaping will never reach dangerous concentrations. On the other hand, generators which are installed partially below the turbine deck can actually have hydrogen accumulations below a concrete turbine deck. These areas require frequent (or continuous) monitoring for unsafe concentrations."

"When hydrogen is burning (oxidizing), it does not produce a visible flame. Therefore, it produces very little (if any) radiant heat. This is very dangerous because when radiant heat is created, personnel can feel the heat from far away. With hydrogen, a person could simply walk right into the fire, being subject to severe burns and hot gas inhalation."

Imagine not being able to see the hydrogen fire or feel any radiant heat from it. Imagine walking into a 2,254 degree hydrogen fire you cannot see or feel.
58 posted on 05/20/2024 10:17:24 AM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom (“When exposing a crime is treated like a crime, you are being ruled by criminals” – Edward Snowden)
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To: PLMerite

It’s all electromagnetic RADIATION! It’s everywhere! The sun bathes you in it. Light bulbs irradiate you constantly! Cell phones. Radar from airplanes and airports! The horror! RADIATION! Only by ending technological civilization can you be spared a horrible RADIATION death!


59 posted on 05/20/2024 11:23:15 AM PDT by Seruzawa ("The Political left is the Garden of Eden of incompetence" - Marx the Smarter (Groucho))
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To: yesthatjallen

Idiots.


60 posted on 05/20/2024 11:41:23 AM PDT by GailA (Land Grabs, Poisoned Food, KILL the COWS, Bidenomics=BIDEN DEPRESSION. STAGNATION)
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