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To: mass55th
***That wasn't my government. I didn't vote for Clinton or Obama. And it's not my problem that Ukraine was dumb enough to listen to Bill Clinton, and then Obama. ... How much was Ukraine paid monetarily by the U.S. to do that? You know they got something. Knowing Bill, he got something from it too. Maybe Biden did as well, seeing that he was in charge of Ukraine when he was V.P. ... Now, so too is Ukraine, but that Europe's problem, not ours, and certainly not worth going to actual war with Russia over. America today should not pay for the sins of the likes of Clinton and Obama.***

Clinton and Obama were still elected by the American people and they were POTUS during all those international negotiations and agreements. You cannot just wash your hands of your international commitments just because they were agreed upon by Democrats.

If Ukraine hadn't scrapped their SRBMs stockpile (capable of hitting Moscow), along with the missile launchers, support vehicles and factory lines for producing more of them, at the behest of the Obama administration, it's possible Putin would not have invaded them. This, and the previous strategic errors, are presumably why Biden is such a staunch supporter of Ukraine; he knows this catastrophe wouldn't be happening if Russia hadn't cleverly tricked successive US governments into helping to weaken Ukraine.

Due to Western security promises the Ukrainians had previously (during the Clinton administration) scrapped, or handed over to Russia, their fleet of strategic long-range (nuclear-capable) bombers and cruise missiles:

https://twitter.com/sumlenny/status/1732010631161614385

But before you dismiss the Ukrainians as dumb, you have to keep in mind that the leaders of Ukraine during those negotiations were PRO-RUSSIAN SHILLS. They did not care about the viability of an independent Ukrainian state in the future, in fact they wanted to weaken it enough for Russia to be able to take it by force if necessary. They secretly took their orders from the Kremlin and were Russia's puppets. That is why after Viktor Yanukovych fled the country in 2014 (Putin's last puppet President there) the Russians invaded Crimea and the Donbass, because if they couldn't control the Ukrainian President then they needed to physically take over the country's valuable strategic areas instead.

But none of this excuses the USA from its security promises and moral duty to help Ukraine. No foreign government is asking the USA to go to war over Ukraine. The Ukraine is not even a member of NATO (it was black-balled by France and Germany in 2006).

However, the least the US can do is honour its publicly stated commitment to help Ukraine if it came under attack from Russia and send it arms/ammunition/provisions so that it can halt ongoing brutal Russian aggression. The EU/Britain are matching the financial cost of the USA's support packages to Ukraine, so the US is not going it alone.

105 posted on 03/29/2024 9:04:26 AM PDT by David Hunter
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To: David Hunter
I don't care if Lenin was the elected leader of Ukraine, and he dumped his missiles and weaponry because the likes of Bill Clinton and Obama talked him into it, I still don't give a crap about Ukraine, or Russia, nor do I want my tax dollars sent there, especially because not one penny of the billions that they've received, has ever been accounted for. Neither have the weapons we've sent there. And that's what happens in proxy wars. Nobody's held accountable for anything, but let's make sure they have a blank check to operate with.

If the Ukraine people weren't dumb, why did they elect Leonid Kravchuk, who you call a Russian shill as their first President? That's on them. I'm not responsible for their bad decisions. The U.K. was also involved in the Budapest Memorandum. It's time they stepped up, and encouraged the rest of Europe to step up too, and police their own backyard. It's not our job. Other countries we have had treaties and agreements with have broken them repeatedly, so what justifies sticking to a memorandum that wasn't even approved by Congress, nor ever been ratified. It's just a piece of paper.

You can ramble on all you want, trying to justify saving Ukraine's ass, and I'm saying, I have no interest in that country, or any country that has gotten where they are because of bad decisions, and another country has come along to take advantage of that. This country is where it is because of lies, deceit, manipulation, corruption and lawlessness. We are in an extremely weak position, and our enemies are taking advantage of it. Excuse me if I'm a bit more concerned about my own country's wellbeing than some spit of land I have no connection to.

I'm not Ukraine's Mommy. I already raised two sons alone, and have no interest in paying to raise anyone else's. The fact that you are repeating the talking points from the Biden Administration, and the likes of Antony Blinken makes me cringe.

119 posted on 03/29/2024 4:03:06 PM PDT by mass55th (“Courage is being scared to death, but saddling up anyway.” ― John Wayne)
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