MalPearce:
"But Putin keeps insisting on the NATO charter rewrite.
If Putin watered down his demands to telling NATO to end its open door policy from 1st April 2024, NATO might vote for that.
But vote to do that retrospectively, and effectively expel every NATO accession state that joined after 1997?
It’s for the birds, and what I’d really like to hear from the “Boris killed the peace deal” crowd is how on earth they think Ukraine, the USA, the UK, and 30 other countries including the Baltic States, could’ve UNANIMOUSLY agreed to those terms." Thanks for a coherent discussion of those negotiations.
NATO will never vote to end its open-door policy, meaning Russia itself can still apply for membership if it ever cleans up its act and forgets about "Russkiy Mir".
Regarding the negotiations you discussed, I've seen our Putinistas claim it was Ukraine which killed the deal at Istanbul in 2022 because Americans insisted, with some combination of Victoria Nuland and George Soros pulling strings behind the scenes??
Anyway, I doubt if Ukraine will become a full member of NATO until long after some resolution is reached on the current war.
Until then, Ukraine will enjoy a status as some level of "partner", meaning continued major NATO countries' support short of direct warfare against Vlad the Invader's SMO there.
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It’s selective amnesia on their part... To put it charitably.
Boris did indeed tell Ukraine that we wouldn’t support the deal on the table... So they are fixated on him saying it.
What they studiously avoid mentioning is, Boris didn’t say anything against the negotiated deal until after Putin intervened to insist the Russian negotiators include the unattainable NATO charter rewrite as a non negotiable part of it.
It’s like the cobblers over Nuland picking the INTERIM leadership of Ukraine. Which was not a coup.
Ukraine wouldn’t have needed an interim prime minister AND an interim president AND an interim government all at the same time, if Russia hadn’t provoked Maidan.
It’s basic cause and effect; because of Putin’s blackmail over summer and fall 2013 the Azarov government folded; because of Yanukovych’s “biggest act of betrayal of his own country since Benedict Arnold” deal with Moscow in December 2013 even Yanukovych’s own party voted to impeach him; because Yanukovych couldn’t face impeachment he went AWOL.
So, Putin didn’t want the USA to meddle in Ukrainian affairs. But he could’ve spent all of 2013 sitting with his thumb up his ass instead of propelling Ukraine into civil unrest and a collapse of a regime that wasn’t remotely hostile to Russia.
Putin is a retard. It’s his own retarded fault Nuland had an open goal to kick at.