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To: SeekAndFind
The title of this thread is about Rand Paul, himself a doctor. He is not responsible for what other people might say and think.

I agree, he is not responsible for what others say.

However, he is doing nothing to stem the flow of antivax/antiscience conspiracies and rhetoric. Someone with his educational background--he holds an MD degree and specialized in ophthalmology) should know better. On the contrary, he keeps adding fuel to the conspiracy fire. I suspect that he has put his medical background aside in order to help spread misinformation because of political calculations. Put simply, he has calculated that the way to win conservatives to his side is by fostering the conspiracy theories that are circulating in conservative media and forums.

In general, the targeting of conservatives with misinformation has been a very negative development of the pandemic. Not only does it fill people's heads with misinformation that can injure or kill them, it helps to cement the idea that conservatives are a bunch of crackpots. Those spreading the misinformation have very successfully tied us to it in the minds of the general population. For example, run-of-the-mill liberals not only blame Trump for spreading Covid misinformation, but for creating the misinformation. Never mind that Trump does not have the scientific background to even begin to create antivax/antiscience rhetoric. The fact that he and conservatives in general are blamed for the rise of Covid misinformation is, I'm afraid, deeply damaging to the conservative movement.

Early on in the pandemic, I saw FR being used as a dumping ground for misinformation. I suspect that Russian troll farms were, in fact, using FR as a conduit to spread misinformation among conservatives. I tried to fight it. I tried to inform people about the science. One poster in particular would post long screeds daily about how Covid is "just a flu" and we shouldn't be worried about it, but whenever I would rebut his claims, he never replied. I suspect that he was a Russian troll. I stopped fighting the misinformation around April or May 2020, when I realized that people were so convinced by it that they would rather hold on to it than see Trump be reelected. Unfortunately, the election result turned out the way I thought it would.

I've returned to take up the fight against misinformation again because I'm afraid that conservatism will not have a future as long as we can be painted as antiscience antivax kooks. I do not want to live in the socialist dictatorship that has, by all evidence, just about taken over. In just two years of Biden, we have lost too much.

33 posted on 10/26/2023 1:14:26 PM PDT by exDemMom (Dr. exDemMom, infectious disease and vaccines research specialist.)
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To: exDemMom

Thanks for posting a well out thread on how government research is suppose to work...


34 posted on 10/26/2023 1:47:55 PM PDT by EVO X ( )
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To: exDemMom

RE: I agree, he is not responsible for what others say.

Well, then there’s no reason to bring up what others say that Rand Paul did not. He is NOT responsible for people misquoting or misunderstanding him.

RE: However, he is doing nothing to stem the flow of antivax/antiscience conspiracies and rhetoric. Someone with his educational background—he holds an MD degree and specialized in ophthalmology) should know better. On the contrary, he keeps adding fuel to the conspiracy fire.

Hang on. I’m not sure Rand Paul is a conspiracy theorist when it comes to the Covid vaccine. He is again, responsible ONLY for what he says, not for what others are saying he says.

More than anything else, Senator Paul is a LIBERTARIAN and against government interference in our individual lives. My read on his vaccine stance are as follows:

* Vaccine Hesitancy: Senator Paul has expressed concerns about COVID-19 vaccine mandates and has generally advocated for individual choice and personal freedom. He has questioned the need for vaccine mandates and often emphasized the importance of personal medical autonomy. He cites the cases of Joe and Jill Biden, Kamala Harris, Nancy Pelosi, etc. Who were ALL vaccinated and boosted more than once, but who were ALL infected anyway despite these as reasons to stop forcing people to take the shot and coerce them at the risk of losing their livelihood. What’s the point of forcing people to vaccinate when it does not prevent infection ( and of course, transmission) anyway?

* Skepticism About Vaccine Mandates: Senator Paul has been critical of vaccine mandates imposed by governments and private entities. He has argued that vaccine mandates infringe on personal liberties and that individuals should have the right to make their own healthcare decisions.

He also cites the fact that these current Covid vaccines have not been thoroughly evaluated.

For instance, he shows that the Johnson and Johnson vaccine was suspended in Europe in April 2021 due to concerns about a rare blood clot side effect. However, it was reinstated a month later. But then in December of the same year, the EMA recommended that the Johnson and Johnson vaccine be used only as a second dose for people who have already received a different COVID-19 vaccine. This recommendation was made due to concerns about the risk of blood clots in people who received the Johnson and Johnson vaccine as their first dose.

He also cites news that the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine was suspended in Sweden, Norway, and Finland in October 2021 for people under 30 due to concerns about a rare side effect called myocarditis. The Moderna vaccine was reinstated in Sweden and Finland in November 2021 for people under 30, but it is still suspended in Norway. See here:

https://www.fdanews.com/articles/204750-norway-sweden-suspend-moderna-covid-19-vaccine-for-young-adults-over-side-effects

and here:

https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2477#:~:text=Sweden%2C%20Norway%2C%20and%20Finland%20suspended,vaccine%20as%20their%20second%20dose.

The Norwegian Institute of Public Health continues to monitor the data and has not yet decided when to reinstate the vaccine.

With such an on and off record, it isn’t a good idea by his lights to FORCE people into vaccinating until safety issues of these mRNA vaccines have been throughly researched like other traditional vaccines have been.

He cites the examples of The hepatitis B vaccine, which was tested for about 8 years before being approved by the United States Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in 1981. The vaccine was tested in a variety of clinical trials, including trials in infants, children, adults, and people with chronic liver disease. The trials showed that the vaccine was safe and effective in preventing hepatitis B infection.

The hepatitis A vaccine was approved by the FDA in 1995. It was tested for about 10 years before being approved. The trials showed that the vaccine was safe and effective in preventing hepatitis A infection in children and adults.

He wants SIMILAR time frames for testing these Covid vaccines.

* Promoting Vaccination: While expressing concerns about mandates, Senator Paul has also encouraged people, especially the elderly and those with serious conditions to get vaccinated against COVID-19. He has noted that he received the vaccine himself and believes in the importance of vaccines for public health.

It is NOT fair to call him a promoter of conspiracy theories.


37 posted on 10/26/2023 8:14:59 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: exDemMom; Bikkuri
Early on in the pandemic, I saw FR being used as a dumping ground for misinformation. I suspect that Russian troll farms were, in fact, using FR as a conduit to spread misinformation among conservatives.

Hey look Russia Russia Russia, right out of the Peter Hotez playbook. And that funny nerurolinguistic programming, focus-group-approved, Orwellian newspeak term "misinformation".

46 posted on 10/28/2023 3:22:33 AM PDT by grey_whiskers ( The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: exDemMom; Bikkuri
I've returned to take up the fight against misinformation again because I'm afraid that conservatism will not have a future as long as we can be painted as antiscience antivax kooks.

Right out of the Peter Hotez / Center for Countering Digital Hate playbook. He published an editorial in Nature which called the Peril posed by anti-vaxx, anti science as as bad as (among other things) nuclear weapons and terrorism. He wanted a multidisciplinary task fore which would report, not to the elected government, but to the UN. Do you endorse that? I've asked you that twice before. It looks like you're ducking the question.

103 posted on 10/30/2023 5:42:50 PM PDT by grey_whiskers ( The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: exDemMom
I've returned to take up the fight against misinformation again because I'm afraid that conservatism will not have a future as long as we can be painted as antiscience antivax kooks. I do not want to live in the socialist dictatorship that has, by all evidence, just about taken over. In just two years of Biden, we have lost too much.

This speaks volumes about your own insecurity.

And your character, since you have decided to become a collaborator (even to the point of dishonestly implying you were in a first-name basis with Dr. Malone, and trying to use that to bolster your credibility, then throwing him under the bus and calling him various names like kook and charlatan, or at least blithely engaging in character association by trivially associating him with kooks, without either naming the kooks, or showing his actual literal collaboration with them.)

And even that doesn't matter; our enemies have no problem unpersoning and killing people at the drop of the hat, even if they had been good, faithful acolytes the day before. Not only are you a liar, but you are a despicable coward in the service of knowing liars.

162 posted on 11/02/2023 7:17:31 AM PDT by grey_whiskers ( The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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