Posted on 04/03/2023 7:20:06 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Texas state representative Bryan Slaton introduced a bill, on the 187th anniversary of the fall of the Alamo, to allow Texans to vote on seceding from the United States. Yes, secession, as in the pre–Civil War abandonment. Slayton said in a tweet, "After decades of continuous abuse of our rights and liberties by the federal government, it is time to let the people of Texas make their voices heard." In fact, history teaches us that there are a few ways that this movement may be successful even without secession.
First the history. Most Americans may believe that this war was already fought and even that secession is not a legal course forward, but a little research proves that the question is far more complicated than it first appears. One need look no farther than the aftermath of the Civil War to see the seeds of doubt.
As legal historian Cynthia Nicoletti of the UVA School of Law notes in her recent book, Secession on Trial: The Prosecution of Jefferson Davis , it was far from settled law even in 1865, on the heels of the Civil War. She concludes that none of the Confederate leadership was prosecuted for treason because it was a real possibility that their actions were not illegal. The nation and the administration simply could not risk a finding by the federal courts that the war they had just completed was illegal and that the thousands of dead had been killed by that illegal act.
Article 1, section 10 of the U.S. Constitution says nothing about a prohibition upon the states to secede, nor does Article 1, section 8, which enumerates the specific powers of the federal government.
(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...
We’re arguing at cross purposes. You are assuming the Constitution of 1789 changed the terms of perpetual union specified in the Articles. I am saying that because the new Constitution did not address those terms, the old terms remain in effect, unless a state joined with a qualification such as Texas. And the issue with Texas is whether the current state of Texas is the legal successor to the original.
Ultimately the right to secede is perpetual and remains a choice of the citizens of each state. I’ve heard yout theory before about the A-o-C and I am not buying it.
>>> If the current Constitution is simply a new form of government that continued the Articles of Confederation..<<<
I could certainly be wrong here, but I always thought the Constitution replaced the Articles of Confederation as opposed to being an addition to the A of C. If so the “Perpetual” clause would be rendered moot.
central va....you and I and others have argued about secession before.....at length.
I restate my previous points.
States do not have rights, they have powers, and only those granted in the Constitution. The phrase “right to secede” does not exist anywhere in the Constitution or any Amendments.
Consider this: No state government can force its residents to quit their US citizenship. That’s what happens by secession.
Secession is a power held only by our Federal government, that’s what makes us a Republic.
Secession is the utlimate states right.
Several years ago, I was starting to see this might be needed, but it broke my heart to think of it.
Now, I feel the US I loved is already gone, it doesn’t exist. The question is, will semi conservative states continue to exist separately or we all fall under the thumb of WEF neomarxist oppression?
I believe in nullification but I dont think many states get that concept...we may end up going the the way of a national divorce and it will be ugly.
Neomarxists hold the levers of power all over the country in almost every aspect of culture and governance including DAs in many cities. We may have passed the point of any kind of non violent constitutional answer. I wish not, but every single day the danger increases that we might wait too long .
The whole reason we would resort to secession is because the fedgov monster is NOT following the constitution, which effectively nullifies it. So if/when we get to that point I dont think it matters, it’s going to be brute force on both sides, we aren’t going to be having a nice constitutional conversation over cups of tea to determine the fine print of whether or not it is legal. The commies will say it isn’t, we would say it is legal, and game on.
The Constitution of 1789 created a new national government ratified by a popular vote. Though the vote was organized by each state, ratification depended on the popular vote of each state not the individual approval of the state governments. The state governments assented to be bound by approval of 2/3 of the states' popular votes. This created the odd situation of each inhabitant being a citizen both of the state and of the nation, or dual sovereignty. This is something most foreigners simply give you a deer in the headlights look about if you try to explain it to them.
It would seem to me that any secession would need to be run in reverse, with a petition to amend the Constitution to allow that state to leave pending approval of 2/3 of the each states' population in a referendum.
**Agree to a unified defense against foreign wars…. And create a handful of republics (largely regional) that self govern. Been tried. The Articles of Confederation. Didn’t work then. Could it work today?**
*It could work today. A lot of people on both sides want to rid themselves of the other….*
I don’t think so. The blue part of the confederation would pay their defense bills like Germany does.
Both sides will deport their criminals to the other. Illegals will be accepted in the blue areas like they were in Martha’s Vineyard.
“The US Constitution is silent on the subject of state secession.”
Bingo! You are correct. No mention whatsoever of secession, along with no mention of any states’ rights.... Even though the idea of secession was hotly debated by many of the colonies.
“You sound like a tyrant type.” Thank you for mentioning tyranny. Who is the tyrant when a group of state politicians choose to end the American citizenship of their fellow state residents by seceding?
“I am glad I don’t have any personal dealings with you.”
But you do when I push back on your continued public nonsense about the fantasy of secession.
“Secession is the ultimate states right.”
Again, find the phrase “states right”.......anywhere.
“a citizen both of the state and of the nation, or dual sovereignty.”
US citizens are sovereign to the United States republic only. They may be residents anywhere in the US, and not necessarily in any State.
One could live in WA D.C. or a territory or an overseas military base and have an unconditional sovereign citizenship.
I was born in the territory of AK and had to do nothing to be a full citizen.
I'm thinking of things such as consular notification, where SCOTUS has ruled that the notification is required only if a foreign national is arrested by the US government not a state, since the treaty is with the US government. States can also possess sovereign immunity against lawsuits in their own courts, etc.. US states still have a limited kind of sovereignty, much more so than in other federations, such as Germany.
"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."
American Samoa is the only permanently inhabited territory of the United States in which citizenship is not granted at birth, and people born there are considered “non-citizen nationals”.
Although technically considered “unorganized” since the U.S. Congress has not passed an Organic Act for the territory, American Samoa is self-governing under a constitution that became effective on July 1, 1967.
Thugs like me can understand that citing the Declaration of Independence does not confer any legal authority over the Constitution.
Again, find the word “secession” or “secede” anywhere in any relevant rule of current American law.
In your own state of VA, explain what happened to W VA. They quit ya because VA illegally seceded from the Union.
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