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More Russian soldiers have died in one year in Ukraine than in all 16 of its military actions since Second World War, think tank claims
The Daily Mail ^ | 09 Mar 2023 | Mark Nicol

Posted on 03/10/2023 4:39:42 PM PST by MinorityRepublican

The total number of Russian deaths in Ukraine is likely to have exceeded all fatalities in 16 of the nation's military actions since the Second World War, it has been claimed.

The rate of soldiers being killed per month in the first year of the war was 25 times higher than in Chechnya and 35 times higher than in the Soviet Union's ten-year war in Afghanistan, a US think-tank said.

It is thought Russian troops are dying at five times the rate of Ukrainians, at a total of around 70,000.

The Centre for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) said Russia suffered between 13,000 and 25,000 deaths in the two Chechen wars – meaning the numbers killed in Ukraine in a year could be five times greater than those killed in Chechnya over almost 15 years.

Those killed in the initial attack on Ukraine in February last year included elite regiments, now being replenished with reluctant recruits with little training and poor equipment.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Russia
KEYWORDS: 100000deadrussians; boggeddown; donbasquagmire; failedinvasion; globalistpropaganda; hoho; hohoho; hohos; lol; lolol
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To: MinorityRepublican

Report: Turkey, Hungary Turning on Russia
https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/russia-hungary-turkey/2023/03/10/id/1111878/


41 posted on 03/10/2023 7:16:45 PM PST by familyop ("For they that sleep with dogs, shall rise with fleas" (John Webster, "The White Devil" 1612).)
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To: dforest

...which is to say government propaganda.


42 posted on 03/10/2023 7:20:46 PM PST by katie didit
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To: MinorityRepublican

Ukraine Situation Report: Wagner Group May Take ‘Tactical Pause’ In Bakhmut Offensive
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/ukraine-situation-report-wagner-group-may-take-tactical-pause-in-bakhmut-offensive

Russia’s ‘Shortcomings’ Clearly Seen in Ukraine, Moscow Politician Admits
https://www.newsweek.com/russia-shortcomings-clearly-seen-ukraine-1787064

EU could top up fund for Ukraine arms purchases by 3.5 bln euros -official
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/eu-could-top-up-fund-ukraine-arms-purchases-by-35-bln-euros-official-2023-03-10/


43 posted on 03/10/2023 7:24:55 PM PST by familyop ("For they that sleep with dogs, shall rise with fleas" (John Webster, "The White Devil" 1612).)
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To: 17th Miss Regt

Some Soviet pilots and advisors were killed in action in No. Vietnam including during the raid on Son Tay POW camp. I was just leaving a journalism visit/fact-finding mission in S. Vietnam and Cambodia, airborne to be exact, when that raid took place.

A few may have been killed over Laos.

Just a few interesting sidebar comments.


44 posted on 03/10/2023 7:28:38 PM PST by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper (Figures )
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper

Did they ever pin down for sure who those up to 200 guys they killed were, at the time they didn’t know if they were Chinese or Russians or what, just that they were taller.


45 posted on 03/10/2023 7:34:38 PM PST by ansel12 (NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.)
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To: ansel12

45. They were Russians. We had boots on the ground.


46 posted on 03/10/2023 7:48:02 PM PST by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper (Figures )
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper

I’ve never seen them identified, where did you see them identified?


47 posted on 03/10/2023 7:54:42 PM PST by ansel12 (NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.)
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To: hardspunned

Take a look at the resident and non-resident ‘experts’ that belong to this. 90% white men and women 3-5% Asians and the remaining small percentage of people who are black are ALL assigned to the Africa Program.

Their whiteness is blinding. So, I’m betting they’re mostly Democrats and that their “likely more than” conclusion/report was paid for by the DNC or other Administration flunky agency.

Hahahaaha

https://www.csis.org/about/people/experts


48 posted on 03/10/2023 8:12:22 PM PST by Gaffer
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To: rfp1234

ISW is ran by Kagen, who has ties to Nuland? who started all this Ukraine BS in 2013-2014.


49 posted on 03/10/2023 8:44:20 PM PST by davidb56
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper

What do you mean by “boots on the ground”, do you mean our Special Forces that were there killing those 100-200 mystery men?


50 posted on 03/10/2023 8:50:24 PM PST by ansel12 (NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.)
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To: canuck_conservative
https://sonar21.com/how-could-western-intelligence-have-got-it-wrong-again-they-didnt-they-had-other-purposes/

Larry Johnson, an ex-CIA analyst, writes “I no longer hold clearances and have not had access to the classified intelligence assessments. However, I have heard that the finished intelligence being supplied to U.S. policymakers continues to declare that Russia is on the ropes – and their economy is crumbling. Also, analysts insist that the Ukrainians are beating the Russians”.

Johnson responds that – lacking valid human sources – “western agencies are almost wholly dependent today on ‘liaison reporting’” (i.e., from ‘friendly’ foreign intelligence services), without doing ‘due diligence’ by cross-checking discrepancies with other reporting.

In practice, this largely means western reporting simply replicates Kiev’s PR line. But there does occur a huge problem when marrying Kiev’s output (as Johnson says) to UK reports – for ‘corroboration’.

The reality is UK reporting itself is also based on what Ukraine is saying. This is known as false collateral – i.e., when that which is used for corroboration and validation actually derives from the same single source. It becomes – deliberately – a propaganda multiplier.

###

So, it’s ‘goodbye’ to traditional Intelligence! And ‘welcome’ to western Intelligence 101: Geo-Politics no longer revolves around a grasp on Reality. It is about the installation of ideological pseudo-realism – which is the universal installation of a singular groupthink, such that everyone lives passively by it, until it is far too late to change course.

###

If that were the purpose (to acclimatise Russians to defeat and ultimate Balkanisation), Western propaganda has not only failed, but it has achieved the converse. Russians have coalesced closely together against an existential western threat – and are prepared to ‘go to the wall’, if necessary, in defeating it. (Let those implications sink in.)

###

Another ‘own goal’: The West now faces the task of de-fusing the landmine of their own electorate’s conviction of a Ukraine ‘win’, and of Russian humiliation and decomposition. There will be anger and further distrust for the Élites in the West to follow. Existential risk ensues when people believe nothing the élites say.

###

Neo-con claws tear at anyone gain-saying their ‘line’ – and think-tanks employ an army of ‘analysts’ to turn out ‘academic’ reports suggesting that Russia’s industry – to the extent it exists at all – is imploding. Since last March, western military and economic experts have been regularly-as-clockwork, predicting that Russia has run out of missiles, drones, tanks and artillery shells – and is expending its manpower throwing human-waves of untrained troops upon the Ukrainian siege lines.

The logic is plain, but again flawed. If a combined NATO struggles to supply artillery shells, Russia with the economy the size of a small EU state (logically) must be worse off. And if only we (the U.S.) threaten China hard enough against supplying Russia,then the latter will ultimately run out of munitions – and NATO supported Ukraine ‘will win’.

The logic then is that a war prolonged (until the money runs out) must deliver a Russia bereft of munitions, and NATO-supplied Ukraine ‘wins’.

This framing is entirely wrong because of conceptual differences: Russian history is one of Total War that is fought in a long, ‘all-out’, uncompromising engagement against an overwhelming peer force. But inherent to this idea, is its all-important grounding in the conviction that such wars are fought over the course of years, with their outcomes conditioned by the capacity to surge military production.

Conceptually, the U.S. shifted in the 1980s away from its post-war military-industrial paradigm, to off-shore manufacturing to Asia and to ‘just-in-time’ supply lines. Effectively, the U.S. (and the West) shifted in the opposite direction to ‘surge capacity’, whereas Russia did not: It kept alive the notion of sustainment which had contributed to saving Russia during the Great Patriotic War.

51 posted on 03/10/2023 8:51:19 PM PST by Kazan
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To: MinorityRepublican
https://sonar21.com/how-could-western-intelligence-have-got-it-wrong-again-they-didnt-they-had-other-purposes/

Larry Johnson, an ex-CIA analyst, writes “I no longer hold clearances and have not had access to the classified intelligence assessments. However, I have heard that the finished intelligence being supplied to U.S. policymakers continues to declare that Russia is on the ropes – and their economy is crumbling. Also, analysts insist that the Ukrainians are beating the Russians”.

Johnson responds that – lacking valid human sources – “western agencies are almost wholly dependent today on ‘liaison reporting’” (i.e., from ‘friendly’ foreign intelligence services), without doing ‘due diligence’ by cross-checking discrepancies with other reporting.

In practice, this largely means western reporting simply replicates Kiev’s PR line. But there does occur a huge problem when marrying Kiev’s output (as Johnson says) to UK reports – for ‘corroboration’.

The reality is UK reporting itself is also based on what Ukraine is saying. This is known as false collateral – i.e., when that which is used for corroboration and validation actually derives from the same single source. It becomes – deliberately – a propaganda multiplier.

###

So, it’s ‘goodbye’ to traditional Intelligence! And ‘welcome’ to western Intelligence 101: Geo-Politics no longer revolves around a grasp on Reality. It is about the installation of ideological pseudo-realism – which is the universal installation of a singular groupthink, such that everyone lives passively by it, until it is far too late to change course.

###

If that were the purpose (to acclimatise Russians to defeat and ultimate Balkanisation), Western propaganda has not only failed, but it has achieved the converse. Russians have coalesced closely together against an existential western threat – and are prepared to ‘go to the wall’, if necessary, in defeating it. (Let those implications sink in.)

###

Another ‘own goal’: The West now faces the task of de-fusing the landmine of their own electorate’s conviction of a Ukraine ‘win’, and of Russian humiliation and decomposition. There will be anger and further distrust for the Élites in the West to follow. Existential risk ensues when people believe nothing the élites say.

###

Neo-con claws tear at anyone gain-saying their ‘line’ – and think-tanks employ an army of ‘analysts’ to turn out ‘academic’ reports suggesting that Russia’s industry – to the extent it exists at all – is imploding. Since last March, western military and economic experts have been regularly-as-clockwork, predicting that Russia has run out of missiles, drones, tanks and artillery shells – and is expending its manpower throwing human-waves of untrained troops upon the Ukrainian siege lines.

The logic is plain, but again flawed. If a combined NATO struggles to supply artillery shells, Russia with the economy the size of a small EU state (logically) must be worse off. And if only we (the U.S.) threaten China hard enough against supplying Russia,then the latter will ultimately run out of munitions – and NATO supported Ukraine ‘will win’.

The logic then is that a war prolonged (until the money runs out) must deliver a Russia bereft of munitions, and NATO-supplied Ukraine ‘wins’.

This framing is entirely wrong because of conceptual differences: Russian history is one of Total War that is fought in a long, ‘all-out’, uncompromising engagement against an overwhelming peer force. But inherent to this idea, is its all-important grounding in the conviction that such wars are fought over the course of years, with their outcomes conditioned by the capacity to surge military production.

Conceptually, the U.S. shifted in the 1980s away from its post-war military-industrial paradigm, to off-shore manufacturing to Asia and to ‘just-in-time’ supply lines. Effectively, the U.S. (and the West) shifted in the opposite direction to ‘surge capacity’, whereas Russia did not: It kept alive the notion of sustainment which had contributed to saving Russia during the Great Patriotic War.

52 posted on 03/10/2023 8:51:27 PM PST by Kazan
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To: mylife

A 1:5 defensive / offensive casualty ratio would not be unusual in this type situation.


53 posted on 03/10/2023 10:12:58 PM PST by Paul R. (You know your pullets are dumb if they don't recognize a half Whopper as food!)
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To: ansel12

US soldiers landed at Son Tay and checked the prison cells where US and ARVN LOWs had been held but were moved out a few weeks before.

However our planes/rescue choppers killed many remaining NVA soldiers and a few Russian advisors (possibly interrogators or intelligence agents attached to them). There was at least one book or study/report published on the raid and one kept secret.

A number of my friends and acquaintances were POWS at the Hanoi Hilton and satellite camps in or near Hanoi itself - Jeremiah Denton, Bud Day, Mike Be getting, Larry Stark, Paul Galanti, Randle, etc. Throw in Nick Rowe (Five Years to Freedom) re POWs in SVN, for good measure.

There are many stories about the war that are still classified including something I helped uncover as well as one historical footnote incident I got from an NVA senior military officer senior defector.

Life is indeed strange.


54 posted on 03/10/2023 11:58:16 PM PST by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper (Figures )
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To: katie didit

The words “It is thought” do not make it a fact. This is usual Daily Mail war propaganda trying to be sold as fact.


55 posted on 03/11/2023 3:51:36 AM PST by dforest (All of America has derailed.)
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper

I know a lot about the raid, and there are a whole lot of books and countless articles on the raid, even movies and documentaries on the Son Tay raid.

Frankly, you don’t seem to know much about it and think it is some unknown deep secret that has never been written about except for one book/report, and one secret report.

Rather than answer my simple question you started blowing smoke with unrelated names and general stuff.


56 posted on 03/11/2023 4:22:59 AM PST by ansel12 (NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.)
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To: dforest

yup.


57 posted on 03/11/2023 7:17:43 PM PST by katie didit
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To: ansel12

I recently moved and haven’t unpacked all of my 1,000 plus books, magazines, congressional hearings including 5 of mine, the 90 macv reports on Cosvn, etc. That is why I couldn’t specifically name any Son Tay raid publications.

If you can’t recognize the names I listed of SF, AID, Army, Navy and Air Force personnel Iisted as POWS, and the significance of what they knew throughout both their imprisonment and careers, then you don’t know or understand much.
I’ll just add in two more names of those deeply involved in VN but who I had journalistic contacts with on both military and intelligence stories I was working on re non-VN events - Lt. gen. Daniel Graham, DD CIA, Dir. DIA, SDI, etc. And Lt. Gen. John Singlaub, SOG - VN,Laos, etc and privately re Latin America.

I used to have lunch with many of them on a regular basis and they knew a lot about the war that often hadn’t been made fully public for years.

You can learn a lot if you ask the right questions and listen to their answers.


58 posted on 03/11/2023 11:00:24 PM PST by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper (Figures )
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper

Of course, I recognized the names and I have Nick Rowes book etc. but what do they have to do with the simple question you were asked?

Why you are off into rambling, non-relevant nonsense and non-relevant names, and name-dropping is baffling and sounds like internet BS, all you were asked is when they pinned down that the 100 to 200 mystery men were Russian and you were off into the internet mists and not even knowing about all the books and countless articles, the movies and the documentaries on the raid, you said there was one book or report, and one secret one.


59 posted on 03/12/2023 5:23:50 AM PDT by ansel12 (NATO warrior under Reagan, and RA under Nixon, bemoaning the pro-Russians from Vietnam to Ukraine.)
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper

Were those advisors Russians or Chinese?


60 posted on 03/12/2023 1:38:19 PM PDT by Jacob Kell (Parents are better off sending their kids to vocational schools.)
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