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To: DesertRhino

The apostle Paul wrote several letters to various Christian communities, and his teachings on female leaders in the church are a topic of debate among scholars and theologians. There are several passages in his letters that touch on this subject, and different interpretations of these passages have led to varying views on the role of women in church leadership.

One of the most cited passages on this topic is found in 1 Timothy 2:11-12, where Paul writes, “Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” Some interpret this passage as a prohibition against women holding leadership positions in the church, while others argue that it is a specific instruction to a particular community and should not be applied universally.

However, there are other passages in Paul’s letters that suggest a more egalitarian view of women’s roles in the church. For example, in Romans 16, Paul greets several women by name, including Phoebe, who is described as a “deacon” (diakonos) and a “benefactor” (prostatis) of the church. Some scholars argue that this indicates that women were involved in leadership roles in early Christian communities.

Similarly, in 1 Corinthians 11, Paul discusses the practice of women prophesying in church and wearing head coverings while doing so. This suggests that women had an active role in worship and ministry in the early church.

Overall, Paul’s teachings on female leaders in the church are complex and open to interpretation. While there are passages that appear to limit women’s roles in church leadership, there are also passages that suggest a more inclusive view. Ultimately, the interpretation of these passages is a matter of debate among Christians and may vary depending on cultural and theological contexts.


10 posted on 02/21/2023 10:19:05 PM PST by jroehl (And how we burned in the camps later - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn - The Gulag Archipelago)
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To: jroehl

“inclusive” ‘eh??

NO NO NO NO NO SMH

You use that term much in day-to-day life?


19 posted on 02/21/2023 11:19:46 PM PST by griffin (When you have to shoot, SHOOT; don't talk. -Tuco)
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To: jroehl

The debate only exists due to a lazy exegesis of the texts, lacking a consistent hermeneutic. This was never an issue with the early church and with the Reformers.

It’s an issue today because most will not study, and some “scholars” choose to twist the Scriptures.

There is only one sense of a text. One side is wrong.


20 posted on 02/21/2023 11:43:44 PM PST by Salvavida (“Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about the former.”)
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To: jroehl

They aren’t complex, they are written clearly. And that era provides no example of a female leading a congregation.
It’s only complex to scholars... you know, the way the Constitution is complex to lawyers.


24 posted on 02/21/2023 11:52:26 PM PST by DesertRhino (Dogs are called man's best friend. Moslems hate dogs. Add it up..)
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To: jroehl

A couple other passages that are guidelines for leadership:
I Timothy 3 says that ‘an elder is to be husband of one wife;’ ‘above reproach’ is also used in that sentence. Thus a man (aner) and not a divorcee (above reproach.)
Titus also speaks to church leadership as have ‘the older women... teach the younger women to love their husbands, to love their children... (My conclusion from this means that some women can be appointed to leadership over other women.)
When we let Scripture interpret Scripture the picture becomes very clear. Women are not to have authority over men or to teach men. ‘Eve was deceived’ and that points to a weakness a in woman’s leadership that could lead to erroneous teachings.


43 posted on 02/22/2023 4:58:48 AM PST by JCM
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To: jroehl

Very well said.


44 posted on 02/22/2023 5:05:59 AM PST by jagusafr ( )
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To: jroehl

Straight out of chatgpt I see...


48 posted on 02/22/2023 5:24:12 AM PST by DouglasKC
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To: jroehl

Jesus said no such thing.


57 posted on 02/22/2023 7:09:07 AM PST by GingisK
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To: jroehl

And who went to the tomb?

Luke 24
1 On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. 2


64 posted on 02/22/2023 9:18:38 AM PST by Scrambler Bob
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To: jroehl; ConservativeMind; ealgeone; Mark17; BDParrish; fishtank; boatbums; Luircin; mitch5501; ...
1 Timothy 2:11-12, where Paul writes, “Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” Some interpret this passage as a prohibition against women holding leadership positions in the church, while others argue that it is a specific instruction to a particular community and should not be applied universally.

Contextually Non-sense! If Scripture taught women pastors, i would defend it, but such flagrant eisegesis as this provokes correction fro me. The reason given in what follows in 1 Timothy 2 pertains to both creation and the Fall: "For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety." (1 Timothy 2:13-15)

Note that "childbearing "in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety is a synonym for being saved by effectual faith, in which the normative role of women is that of bearing and raising children, for which the women is nobly uniquely designed and fitted for. Thus the devil perverts it. n Romans 16, Paul greets several women by name, including Phoebe, who is described as a “deacon” (diakonos)

Actually she is contextually described as a servant, which is what diakonos basically means, one who waits on others, thus though also translated minister, it is translated "servant in, "But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister [diakonos];" (Matthew 20:26) "But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister [diakonos]:" (Mark 10:43) "Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ. But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant [diakonos].' (Matthew 23:10-11) And in Mar_9:35, Joh_12:26, Mat_22:12-13 (2), Joh_2:5, Joh_2:9.

Which is consistent with the context (which extrapolative egalitarian ignore). "That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business [things] she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also." (Romans 16:2) The instructions for deacons are clearly that of men. "Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.' (1 Timothy 3:12)

That women helped the Lord Jesus and Paul is not in dispute, but not in leadership. And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod’s steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered [diakoneō] unto him of their substance. (Luke 8:3) And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life. (Philippians 4:3) Thank God for such!

Similarly, in 1 Corinthians 11, Paul discusses the practice of women prophesying in church and wearing head coverings while doing so. This suggests that women had an active role in worship and ministry in the early church.

Which would establish what? How can anyone read support for women pastors? All this testifies to is meetings akin to when "Miriam the prophetess, the sister of Aaron, took a timbrel in her hand; and all the women went out after her with timbrels and with dances." (Exodus 15:20)

Overall, Paul’s teachings on female leaders in the church are complex and open to interpretation. While there are passages that appear to limit women’s roles in church leadership, there are also passages that suggest a more inclusive view.

Wrong they are only open to feminist interpretation by ignoring context and engaging in sophistry. See http://peacebyjesus.net/womenpastors.html , by the grace of God.

84 posted on 02/22/2023 8:13:40 PM PST by daniel1212 (Turn to the Lord Jesus as a damned+destitute sinner, trust Him who saves, be baptized + follow Him!)
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To: jroehl

There’s a big difference between women being active in many roles in the church, including exercising the gifts of the Spirit, such s prophecy, and actually being in a position g authority and leadership over men.

Paul is quite clear that women are not to be in a position of spiritual authority over men and the reason GOD gives us in Scripture, is that women are more easily deceived than men.


85 posted on 02/22/2023 9:21:47 PM PST by metmom (...fixing our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Perfecter of our faith…)
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