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To: Reily; Paul R.
The problen, Reily, is that the statement was incorrect - firstly, Poland didn't invade Slovakia, secondly the timelines are all wonky

it's just like the common refrain that "ukraine was always a part of Russia"

here is the European map of 1600

And in 1700

Ukraine was a border country between the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth (not "Poland"), the Tsardom of Muscowy (not "Russia" yet, not until 1721) and the Ottomans (not "Turkey")

Ukraine as well as the Tsardom of Muscowy as well as the Commonwealth were the target of slave raids by the Crimean Tatars (not the Turks per se - they just bought the slaves when they were sent from Crimea south)

While right-bank Ukraine belonged to the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth until late 1793, left-bank Ukraine had been incorporated into Tsardom of Russia in 1667 (under the Treaty of Andrusovo). In 1672, Podolia was occupied by the Turkish Ottoman Empire, while Kyiv and Braclav came under the control of Hetman Petro Doroshenko until 1681, when they were also captured by the Turks, but in 1699 the Treaty of Karlowitz returned those lands to the Commonwealth.

Most of Ukraine fell to the Russian Empire under the reign of Catherine the Great; in 1793 right-bank Ukraine was annexed by Russia in the Second Partition of Poland.

However, the Ukrainians are a separate East Slavic people - distinct from Muscowy. Just as the Slovaks differ from the Czechs

Moscow tried to assimilate them - and when they did so through culture, they were mildly successful, but when they imposed forced Russification from the 1870s, especially the crushing of the Uniate Church, they pushed people to feeling the sense of "other". This was especially the case under the Soviets - Stalin (a Georgian!) imposed Russification on the Soviets. Think of it this way - France in 1780 had only 10% speaking French i.e. Parisian dialect; Italy in 1850 had a similar number speaking Italian i.e. the Milanese dialect. Sicilian is not mutually intelligible with standard Italian, and Breton is a separate language. But the people took up French and Italian due to cultural pressures and most do not have the aim to set up a separate state. This could have happened in Eastern Europe in the 1800s, but hamfisted actions made people pull further apart and today they are separate nations.

105 posted on 01/24/2023 8:23:10 AM PST by Cronos
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To: Cronos

Yes, I know all of this.

If you go back far enough all these countries were nipping at each other’s borders, e.g. 30 Years War, “Time of Troubles - Russia”, various wars with the Ottomans- who had Christian vassal states who had to contribute militarily, etc. I could go on! That’s how I interrupted his statement.

Ok he wasn’t as accurate as I implied. However, it was more historically insightful than hurling Nazi Nazi around which is what most people do that discuss this. That was my point. I apologize for making it clumsily!


107 posted on 01/24/2023 8:51:14 AM PST by Reily
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To: Cronos

Actually, Poland did invade “Slovakia*” in 1938.

“In 1938 Poland pursued its own territorial claims, and gave an ultimatum to the Czechoslovak government, which resulted in the annexation of the Zaolzie* region which in fact had a Polish majority”

* A border area that separated Czech lands from Slovakia.

I vaguely remembered this; had to look up the details.

And they had been taking “whacks” at each other for some time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Czechoslovak_border_conflicts

Nobody had sparkling clean hands! Europe has centuries of conflict leaving dislikes to ancient hatreds.


109 posted on 01/24/2023 6:35:04 PM PST by Reily
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