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To: Cronos
When I read these Ukraine-Russia War threads, many comments seem to believe that Ukraine is a sovereign nation with a long history of independence.

As far as I know, except for the aberration of 1990-2020, Ukraine has always been part of some empire, going back at least 3,000 years.

The Mongols, the Tartars, the Ottomans, the Poles, Austro-Hungary, Tsarist Russia, and the Soviet Union, have all controlled Ukraine at various times.

Right or wrong, Putin thinks of Ukraine as part of Russia.

The USA had a similar violent conversation from 1861-1865.

115 posted on 10/08/2022 9:02:47 AM PDT by zeestephen
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To: zeestephen

Your information is incomplete.

Ukraine was a briefly independent state after world war one.

It was also a nominally independent polity in the 1400s to 1600s under the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth and Ottoman borderlands.

Also neither Muscowy nor Ukraine have a history dating back 3000 years.

Heck, 3000 years ago the Balts and Slavs were one people with the Nordic.


116 posted on 10/08/2022 9:34:46 AM PDT by Cronos
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To: zeestephen

This is not similar to the Confederate states.

The best analogy would be austria and Germany.

“Russia” is basically Muscowy and Muscowy conquered territories.

Ukraine is a cousin state but with the PLC as a father, while Moscow’s father is the Mkngol khaganate


117 posted on 10/08/2022 9:36:59 AM PDT by Cronos
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To: zeestephen

Why is Ukraine a full member of the UN and had been since 1945?


122 posted on 10/08/2022 7:16:16 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Vote Democrat and stay on the plantation!)
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