Posted on 09/10/2022 9:56:26 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
—” Morale is gone and even state tv watching Russians stopped believing Putin’s lies”
I saw that Ukraine hacked Crimean TV and broadcast the GOOD NEWS!
If that is a fact they are up there with the famous most TV hack ever.
Used Cars Interrupt the President OF THE UNITED STATES!
Too much reliance on militias and mercenaries. Not enough regular troops. Probably, some sort of false flag is next, to persuade the Duma that a full scale Russian army mobilization is needed.
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They do not have the manpower. Simple as that. The Russian population is barely over half of the US population (147.2 million) - every man taken out of the economy and put into the military lowers Russian productivity.
It takes years to train motivated and spirited troops - the only sort that can win a battle and a war, The conscripts arriving now are in their 50s and 60s. Mobilization is a concept that does not work here - even if the Russian people would stand for it - which they would not.
What? Conscripts in their 50s and 60s?
I thought about “re-enlisting” after 911, and concluded that I would only hamper wartime efforts. I was 50 at the time.
Is this true? All they’d get are a bunch of cirrhotics.
Since Russia “trains” a class of conscripts every year, they should have at least 500,000 under-30’s available for call-up, allowing for a large majority of each class as exempt.
The real problem is the lack of training and lack of means to operate the call-up. And, its increasingly clear, a lack of equipment for these people.
The “West” is indeed full of “greedy immoral capitalists”, and also whimsical perverts, neurotics and narcissists. But, lucky for everyone, its been the Ukrainians doing the fighting.
You cannot train a 2 year conscript who has no obligation to fight outside of Russia and compare that with a RGF airborne unit or a Wagner mercenary
The under 30 crowd is used up and they are working on the 50-60 year old crowd.
It takes years to train them - two is not adequate to gain more that survival skills and basic training - worse, their artillery depends on very intelligent kids getting still more years of proficiency training.
No amount of basic training will instill motivation and spirit.
All they’d get are a bunch of cirrhotics.
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That’s the starting point for ordinary conscripts.
There are many intercepted conversions and letters home that complain about the old men being sent in. There are also a bunch of photos.
Russian only has 147 million people - where do you suppose they are going to get another 100,000 - 200,000 troops well trained, motivated and spirited? Not to mention the equipment they need with parts that where sourced mostly from the West, including ball bearings. Embargoed.
I talked to three different recruiters after 9/11 but was too old for reenlistment.
These Russians that could be called up are 1-year conscripts, so its even worse than you say.
The bulk of the Ukrainians currently in uniform have much less training or service time than that. At this point most have less than 6 months. Motivation and etc, Napoleons “the moral is to the material as 3 is to 1” , really does matter more though.
My take on the 60 year old crowd is that these guys are prior service volunteers signing up for bonuses, and that local authorities corruptly pass them on to make up their quota; as no one else is volunteering, any warm body will do. Its very like Falstaffs company (Henry IV) - Mouldy, Bullcalf, Feeble, Shadow and Wart, all, as usual, “food for powder, food for powder”.
I think you are pushing these timelines a little too hard,
We can supply paratroops quickly and an FDC in artillery hits basic and then AIT and then to his unit in about 4 or 4+ months or at least during Vietnam.
Our WWII army was 93% draftee, our Vietnam war basic was 8 weeks followed by 8 or 9 weeks(?) of AIT, 3 weeks of jump school if needed, then maybe 3 months of Ranger training if they swung that way or even OCS which didn’t take that long.
It takes a long time to build a skilled army but the lower enlisted and lower officer ranks don’t take forever.
In the 9th Infantry Division in 1972 we were filling our artillery battalion with trainees straight from Basic, we were giving them OJT on 155 artillery.
It was something the army was trying.
No I’m not. Let me point out that military training in the US and most western countries bares little resemblance to the same in Russia - conscripts are often beaten daily and treated harshly - sometimes there is only dog food to eat because the unit commander has stolen all the money. The list goes on.
“”It takes years to train them - two is not adequate to gain more that survival skills and basic training - worse, their artillery depends on very intelligent kids getting still more years of proficiency training.””
How does it take more than two years to train an artilleryman?
I don’t get all these time requirements. The U.S. occasionally does 2-year enlistments and of course had a draft military from about 1940 to 1973.
Trained but not proficient and again using the US army as a comparison to Russian training is just like comparing apples to mice.
As I said, we took our artillerymen straight from 8 weeks of basic and trained them ourselves, and we were an advanced division.
Russian training can be terrible, but I don’t get this idea that soldiering takes so many years of training, even the Rangers don’t require Ranger school.
I think your point can be pushed with a little lightening up on the vast times it takes to train someone for war.
Well just take it up with the Russians as that’s their schedule - there are so many misconceptions about the current Russian military it almost seems like fantasy land by US armchair generals and in some cases by real generals.
Training some one who cannot read or write and speaks a non-Russian language to use complex equipment labeled in a different language is not accomplished in the same time frame - again stop with the US- Russia military comparisons - they are just wrong.
OK, but having had to train our artillerymen while we were being artillerymen, it seemed pretty simple and routine and didn’t seem to be the many years-long, complicated thing you describe.
I think I would just describe how poor Russian training is and not try to pretend that basic military jobs take many years to learn and that 2 years isn’t enough time to learn them. Either someone is being trained, or they are not, the number of years isn’t the issue.
Have you ever tried to get basic concept through to someone who cannot read, write or speak you language? There are 35 language and over 100 dialects in Russia.
Now get them able to speak your language in any sort of fluency while training them to use highly technical artillery pieces whose targets have to be manually calculated. Then get started on maintenance ...
The Russians should just change their national anthem to the Benny Hill theme. They’re that inept.
I was just trying to help.
I don’t think it is useful to keep pushing the idea that it takes many years to be on a howitzer crew.
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