Posted on 08/27/2022 3:29:45 PM PDT by House Atreides
It has rarely been pointed out that the NARA has limited authority in such matters. True, they have a responsibility to know the location of these documents but not the authority to override POTUS. The telling point is that the archive statutes provide no criminal penalties to be enforced.
The dictator, Bitem, has tried to exercise authority - but they want to appear to have no foreknowledge of the raid... awkward, to say the least. Prez Obama issued an executive order allowing a president to cancel a previous president's claims of executive privilege. Oddly, this EO came as a surprise recently to the legal community.
Its constitutional validity is likely to be decided in the next few weeks by former Trump aide, Peter Navarro; he has challenged that EO. IMHO it will fall; George Washington established the principle of executive privilege (separation of powers) and long exercise has established legal precedence. If a president can cancel it for a predecessor then it never existed at all.
. . . . . . . . . .
It seems increasingly apparent that AG Garland cast a wide (unconstitutional) net with his warrant, expecting to lose at least some ground. Meantime, he may have possession of prosecutable material from Russiagate (AG Barr may have already provided this material to SC Durham); ...of prosecutable material against Trump for Jan 06 (unlikely); ...of attorney/client privilege material of Trump, material that will come under the authority of the 'special master' appointed by the judge soon; ...of financial, business and tax records - also under the hand of the special master; and finally, personal and family matters also under the jurisdiction of the special master and the appointing judge.
Assuming that the special master and the appointing judge are on the square, what is DoJ/FBI left with? We may already be seeing that 'product' in the Adam Schiff-like leaks popping up in the media - unverifiable, untraceable unfounded rumors that scurvy 'Rats like Pelosi and Schiff can try to add credibility to as 'Classified but you can believe us.' These people live in the farm yard filth of D.C. and have their corrupt media to trumpet their braying.
For some reason I could not include you in my #41 previous.
100% facts.
the Swamp is the Swamp, and all Trump’s judges had to get Mitch’s seal of approval.
your tag is also 100% spot on too.
They already know what is in them... it is their papers... they do not want them to see the light of day.
This is a cover up raid.
Please do not be dense.
What was taken is the proof of crossfire hurricane incredible malfeasance.
I am certain Big Don has copies all over the world. The FBI is and forgive me for this... Royaly Fucked.
BINGO!
Meanwhile where are they now? Oh I see. The fbi has them manipulating them as they want.
“ Meanwhile where are they now? Oh I see. The fbi has them manipulating them as they want.”
**********************************************************************
I guess you don’t think that Trump has copies of the truly incriminating (of the FBI) DEclassified material?
What is wrong with that announcement?
“Intent”. Not a commitment, just an “intent”.
But also a “preliminary” intent. Whoa. Lots of wiggle room there.
“A special master” presumably to replace the plain language of the 4th Amendment which was violated by the FBI.
Other than that, all is wonderful.
OK, Eeyore.
Its not that Trump may or may not have the copies. What the FBlie has is the records. In their possession. Free to add to or take things out. Remember there is NO inventory of what was seized, just “boxes”. One guys box of cereal is another box of gold unless it is specific and recorded for what it is.
Also, while this is being considered, we have a bunch of Sherlock’s sifting through what Trump has earmarked for an election attack. Like whom was pushing the Russia nonscense for years, hint it was not just Hitlery. Then we hear “he had the nuclear codes”, meaning the SIOP plan probably. Anyone think the Ruskies cannot figure out what we intend to vaporize in a nuke attack? “He may have had access to sources.” Anyone think the Ruskies don’t know NSA collects all electronic materials. Lastly, if anyone thinks we have have all these great sources, how is it we never seem to know what is going on till after it happens?
This was a fishing expedition with no warden on site or planned.
Indeed
The President is the OCA (Original Classification Authority), he can delegate classification to subordinates (and normally does). While acting as Chief Executive, he has access to ALL classified material and can declassify material for any reason.
Hillary, as Secretary of State, was not an OCA, moved classified information to a personal server which was not secured and tried to hide the act after it was discovered. She got away with it because she was democrat and running for POTUS. The irony is that she probably had delegated OCA authority but never bothered to remove the classification markings. No way was DOJ going to pursue her and they were furious at Comey’s bumbling farcical antics.
President Trump ordered that material going with him be declassified. Additionally, Mar Largo has a “facility clearance,” which means classified information can be stored at the site. When you have 24 hour armed Secret Service Agents, it’s an easy do. Also, former Presidents maintain their TS/SCI clearances after leaving office.
This was a spat between the National Archives and President Trump, and the DOJ saw what they thought was an opportunity to hurt him and his image. DOJ and FBI should have never been involved.
Attorneys at the DOJ serve at the pleasure of the President. When Trump returns to office, he should fire every single one. They use the FBI as their personal Geheime Staatspolizei.
A few thoughts here:
“...she probably had delegated OCA authority but never bothered to remove the classification markings.”
Without the security investigation and the teaching of the system itself as there were no documents indicating anything concerning computer access and none showing a clearance to enter compartmental information in her PIF, she shouldn’t have had the opportunity to use a government computer or access to one. To my knowledge her office was designated a SCIF. But by the definition of a SCIF personal electronic devices—your cellphone, your Blackberry—can never be brought into a SCIF. They represent a serious technical threat that is actually employed by many intelligence agencies worldwide. And she took it a step further by using her personal computer in her private area. So she had no CAC clearance documentation, no SCIF, and compromised sensitive material in her personal computer. And by her transferring information from her computers, she opened it up to hackers everywhere.
In the final statement by Comey in July 2016:
In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.
“President Trump ordered that material going with him be declassified.”
Even the president or vice can’t blanket declassify documents verbal. And according to information I have read he did it verbally by saying anything he took out of the white house was declassified. That’s not even close to how it is supposed to be done. So that is an administrative problem. But it is not a security breach to the point of espionage because there is no0 evidence of it nor is it a criminal offence.
I think he screwed up by misusing the use of declassification especially of compartmental documents. But near as bad as Hilary as she had been hacked in 2009.
DOJ and FBI should have never been involved.”
They had to. They are the hands and feet of the security forces besides Homeland Security. But their report should have been handled by another source so as to wave away appearance to conflict of interest. And that’s where the person that they wanted, after the fact, to bring in to decide the situation, should have already been in place.
As for Hilary, goose/gander.
wy69
I don’t disagree with your points, with the exception of DOJ political corruption. I don’t know who classified the information on Hillary’s personal servers, but if the SAPs were created by DoS, then she has/had to authority to declassify. She was just too stupid to do it. Someone had to either use removable media, or printed, then scanned the classified emails that were on her private personal server.
If she wasn’t the classification authority for the docs found on her personal systems, then you’re spot on. If you or I did the same thing, we’d end up breaking big rocks into little rocks.
As for how the President (as the OCA) goes about declassifying something, I’m not sure how the administrative process works. All I remember from my training is it is emphasized that the Chief Executive is the ultimate classification authority and has the power to declassify anything (if it’s unwise to do so).
With regards to the National Archives and DOJ. This is the second time they’ve used CI squads instead of criminal squads. CI protects against discovery utilizing the umbrella of “protecting sources and methods.” There were numerous ways DOJ could have asserted more pressure, but the swamp wanted a show so they went full tilt (IMHO).
” I don’t know who classified the information on Hillary’s personal servers, but if the SAPs were created by DoS, then she has/had to authority to declassify.”
Funny thing is that there was no information on her being an OCA since she didn’t even have legal access to a simple CAC card to get into a government computer. So how could she be considered an OCS and to declassify documents she wasn’t supposed to see if she was not allowed?
The only thing on that was that the DOJ said she had an area in part of her office to view such documents. She also had only her personal computer to do it. Isn’t it wonderful that the public (voters) don’t understand how our security system works because they can say anything and the citizens don’t know so they just ignore it. Ending: security legally compromised by a bunch of people working there...kinda.
“If you or I did the same thing, we’d end up breaking big rocks into little rocks.”
But we’re not the Clintons and a soon to be liberal presidential candidate. After all, she didn’t do it on purpose according the Comey. Forget about the creation of a lie about a viewing area that can’t exist with a personal server, the fact that she had no paperwork to back her use of a government system even at sensitive, and that her system had previously been hacked in 2009 and she was storing documents on it. It was all BS to protect her.
The power to classify documents was enumerated in an executive order signed by President Barack Obama in 2010. The order defines this power as ‘classification authority’ and grants that power to:
The president and vice president
Agency heads and officials designated by the president
Other US government officials bestowed the authority by agency heads
The rules for declassification are:
Upon classification the original classifying authority sets a date for declassification when they feel the sensitivity of the national security threat will have passed. On this date the record is automatically declassified.
There is an exception to the above time frame if classification will reveal “a confidential human source or a human intelligence source or key design concepts of weapons of mass destruction.”
If the person who classified the record cannot determine an appropriate date for automatic declassification the record will be classified for 10 years, or 25 if it especially sensitive.
No information can be classified indefinitely.
But the magic of declassifying documents for the feds is a series of entries or signatures on documents to go through the different hits on the path with the National Declassification Center. (NDC)(NARA) And the recognition of the touching base with many of the organizations is real and has to happen prior to the declassification of the document(s) even if it is time for it to go. See page 15 on this site:
But my question is this for them:
How can confidential documents, especially compartmental ones, be declassified with all the hoops that have to be jumped through and with all the signatures of recognition, if they can get them past secret, the lowest level, and not be tracked since there is a need to store them in a scif? Trump would have to have declassified and removed them while in office as he would not have been allowed to keep them if it wasn’t legal as the NDC would have denied their movement? Trump has been out of office voted since 2020 and totally out in January of 2021. That’s one year eight months of his controlling information he was not supposed to have in his old scif, which no longer exists as document security is not that necessary for a past president with no need to have classified material there. Has the NDC taken the efforts to repair the anal cranial insertion problem they have or is this just another they didn’t mean to do it? A good worker is hard to find. But apparently a good nobody is easy.
wy69
Classic example of slow-rolling the outcome. So, a bit over two months until the midterms? Piece of cake for them to keep this issue alive well past that point.
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