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IS Ukraine LOSING the war in Donbas? Defenders fall back to avoid capture as Russians advance after blasting towns to wastelands.... (40 photos)
FOR MAILONLINE ^ | 28 May 2022 | DAN SALES and CHRIS MATTHEWS

Posted on 05/28/2022 5:09:53 AM PDT by dennisw

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To: caseinpoint
I read Baud's piece previously, but I looked it up and read it again. In essence, his article seems more a critique of the standard reporting than a fully-formed explanation of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. And I see little reason to credit Baud over the mass of reporting and analysis by better credentialed and informed writers in better funded outlets.

The core of Baud's analysis sees the conflict as originating in competing Ukrainian and Russian ethno-nationalism within Ukraine and the failure of Ukraine's central government to implement the Minsk accords. This take tends to reduce the issue to the Ukrainians being mean to their Russian citizens. That amounts to a strongly pro-Russian tilt that omits key points.

(1) Russia relentlessly stoked the Donbas conflict by propaganda, cash, supplies and munitions, heavy weapons, and trained mercenaries and volunteers sent from Russia into the areas in the Donbas dominated by Russian speakers.

Remarkably, this included putting sophisticated Russian antiaircraft defenses in the Donbas. In July 2014, this led to the shoot down of a Malaysian Boeing 777 airliner using a Russian Buk M2 (SA-17) self-propelled anti-aircraft system. When that happened, the coverup included having the unit skedaddle back across the border into Russia. It seems extremely unlikely that the crew for such a sophisticated weapon was composed of Ukrainian separatists rather than Russian military.

Baud surely knows all that and more but declined to mention it because it contradicts his claim that the separatist movement in the Donbas principally relied on diverted Ukrainian small arms. Instead, as the airliner shoot down and much else shows, Russian heavy weapons, crews, armor, and fighting men are essential to the Donbas separatists. How could that not be so when the record of history is that rebellions and separatist movements almost always lose without substantial foreign support. (2) Russian support for Ukrainian separatists is instrumental toward Putin's declared strategic objective of reassembling Russia's customary sphere of imperial influence over Ukraine and Eastern Europe.

Students of modern history -- or even just frequent viewers of cable TV history channels -- will recognize the parallels between the goals and methods of Hitler and Putin in fomenting ethnic antagonisms, portraying ethnic brothers in foreign lands as victims, and then moving from subversion to invasion and annexation. In a continent crowded with competing and often hostile nationalities and cultures capable of making plausible territorial claims, Putin is threatening a return to Europe's most brutal and destructive era of history.

(2) Baud's account of Russia's invasion and larger strategy as aiming only at securing the Donbas does not explain why Ukraine's south coast was a target, why Kiev was attacked, the attacks on Odessa in the south, and on Lviv in the west. When the wise scale of those attacks, the lack of serious negotiations by Russia, and the assassination attempts on Zelensky are assessed, it is clear that Putin sought the comprehensive defeat and dismemberment of Ukraine and the installation of a pro-Russian puppet regime.

(3) Even worse, Baud's military expertise and integrity come into question in his assertion that high level Russian military officer casualties in Ukraine are due to their practice of leading from the front. This is plain ludicrous in that, as is common with autocracies, Russian military practice is for centralized planning and decision-making, with operational decisions flowing from the top down. When such a system falters, senior officers get sent to the combat zone to sort things out, which exposes them to enemy fire.

Don't take my word for how military decisions are made in Putin's Russia. Take a look at Putin's military video conferences as shown in Oliver Stone's bio documentary now on cable. Putin is shown calling on his commanders in Syria and domestically to explain their progress, and a succession of Russian generals with oversize hats and comic opera arrays of medals on their chests describe how the plans and instructions provided are being fulfilled.

(4) Baud also goes off the rails in claiming that Russia is trying to avoid civilian casualties and that grinding out gains by artillery barrages is what they intended all along. In truth, Russia's brutality toward civilians is well-known. The reduction of the city of Grozny in Chechnya by Russian attack in 1994-95 shocked the world. Some 25,000 to 30,000 civilian fatalities were incurred, many of them ethnic Russians.

(5) And Russia's reliance on conventional artillery barrages is due to the breakdown of and inability to use modern combined arms tactics. Now, with the depletion of stocks of smart weapons, Russia is reverting to methods of attack perfected and relied on in WW I and WW II. That is not a sign of progress.

More than that, the US spent decades and many billions of dollars developing the arms and tactics to defeat those methods, with smart sensors, long range artillery projectiles, counter battery radar, shoot and scoot tactics, and precise, long range MLRS and HIMARS rocket artillery for deep strikes. If properly supplied and trained, Ukraine's forces will have the advantage even in artillery battles with Russia.

I surmise that Putin know this and is anxious to take territory in the Donbas before the full measure of Western support for Ukraine reaches the field. In addition, British intelligence seem to think that Putin will be hospitalized and out of power by the end of the year. Meanwhile, Russia's attack on Ukraine has scenes and an act or two yet to unfold.

281 posted on 05/30/2022 9:03:25 AM PDT by Rockingham
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To: McGruff
Here's the Donetsk airport before and after the Ukrainian government's bombardment.

Either you are totally ignorant or just another Russian propaganda poster.

The Donetsk airport was destroyed by shelling from the Russian allied and funded DPR forces. But you know that if you know anything about the fighting in 2014 and 2015 which led to the destruction of the airport.

"DPR forces began a "concerted effort" to retake Donetsk International Airport in the last days of September.[25] The worst incident since the start of ceasefire took place on 28 September, when nine Ukrainian soldiers were killed and twenty-seven wounded in a clash with DPR forces.[1][26] Seven of these died when a tank shell struck a Ukrainian armoured personnel carrier. Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) monitors reported heavy shelling around the airport.[1] Around this time, DPR forces began to establish positions in tower blocks overlooking the airport, including a medical station, staging area, and an artillery observation post.[25] At 06:15 local time on the following day, DPR forces began to barrage the airport with Grad rocket fire."

Do you think maybe the Grad rocket artillery barrages might have damaged the building? The Ukrainian troops were in the building, so they certainly didn't shell themselves.

Read and learn

282 posted on 05/30/2022 7:14:16 PM PDT by freeandfreezing
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To: freeandfreezing

Do you agree with the MSM that an example of “Russian propaganda” is to say the Azov fighters wear neo-Nazi logos?...
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/azov-battalion-drops-neo-nazi-symbol-exploited-by-russian-propagandists-lpjnsp7qg

And that all is well now, because they now changed logos?


283 posted on 05/31/2022 2:39:30 AM PDT by ReaganGeneration2
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To: ganeemead; dennisw

Russia is heavily mixed ethnically

284 posted on 01/10/2023 10:26:18 AM PST by Cronos (.)
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To: School of Rational Thought

REally, if the Ukrainians and Russians want to fight until the last person in either of both countries is annihilated, let them. Just don’t use my tax money to support either of them.


285 posted on 01/10/2023 10:36:29 AM PST by DaiHuy (I support LGBTQ. (Lets Get Biden to Quit.))
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To: dennisw
"Putin wants both Luhansk and Donetsk regions in full and their capture was one of his earliest objectives in the deranged despot's so-called 'special military operation'."

Anybody who'd call Putin a 'deranged despot' has got ape dookey for brains.

286 posted on 01/10/2023 11:34:08 AM PST by ganeemead (Ukraine/Zelensky: Adding an element of chutzpah to ordinary Nazism...)
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To: Cronos

The planet is heavily mixed ethnically. Genetic variation amongst humans is so low that scientists postulate a “bottle neck” around 40K years ago during which there may hav e been no more than around 50 - 100 humans alive on Earth.


287 posted on 01/10/2023 11:37:57 AM PST by ganeemead (Ukraine/Zelensky: Adding an element of chutzpah to ordinary Nazism...)
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To: ganeemead

So then you say there is no “white race”?


288 posted on 01/10/2023 2:26:47 PM PST by Cronos (.)
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To: Cronos
"So then you say there is no “white race”?"

Not in any meaningful sense. Otherwise, what the hell are Yukaghirs (white huns) supposed to be?? They're certainly white enough but nobody would call them Caucasians...

289 posted on 01/10/2023 4:09:17 PM PST by ganeemead (Ukraine/Zelensky: Adding an element of chutzpah to ordinary Nazism...)
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To: Cronos

The meaningful differences between modern humans involve history, culture, and technology, not race or color.


290 posted on 01/10/2023 8:44:30 PM PST by ganeemead (Ukraine/Zelensky: Adding an element of chutzpah to ordinary Nazism...)
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To: ganeemead

So then why did you write on 28th May 2022 “There is one nation on Earth which above all others offers a possibility of white people thriving and making things of themselves and that nation is Russia,”?


291 posted on 01/10/2023 10:12:38 PM PST by Cronos (.)
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To: ganeemead

Yukaghirs are not White guns.

The White Huns or Hephthalites were in central Asia around the time of Christ.

Why “white”?

Because that was/is the Turkic color system denoting cardinal directions

White = West
Red= South
Black = North
Blue = East

Hence the Blue Turks ie the Gokturk confederation; White Rus ie Bialorus ie Belarus; Red Ruthenia ie Ukraine


292 posted on 01/10/2023 10:21:36 PM PST by Cronos (.)
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To: All
Russia is winning because....

Most likely because God is on Russia's side. Might have something to do with God hating nazis and nazism.

293 posted on 01/10/2023 10:23:34 PM PST by ganeemead (Ukraine/Zelensky: Adding an element of chutzpah to ordinary Nazism...)
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To: Cronos
Yukaghirs as I understand it are North Asian, sort of like Eskimos... I ASSUME that Hephthalites ('sveta huuna' in Sanskrit or Hindi) were derived from similar northern tribes but that is not the point. This girl for instance:

is obviously white enough even for the Imperial Wizard but is definitely not Caucasian. What does that do to the idea of there being such a thing as a white race that is meaninghfully diffewrent from other humans??

294 posted on 01/11/2023 6:23:48 AM PST by ganeemead (Ukraine/Zelensky: Adding an element of chutzpah to ordinary Nazism...)
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To: ganeemead
You said Otherwise, what the hell are Yukaghirs (white huns) supposed to be?? They're certainly white enough but nobody would call them Caucasians...

Yukaghirs are NOT and were NOT related to the "white huns" i.e. Hephthalites

The Huns or Xiongnu were proto-Mongolic/Proto-Turkic peoples.

The Eskimo/Yenisean peoples are not proto-Mongolic or proto-Turkic

295 posted on 01/17/2023 3:23:55 AM PST by Cronos (.)
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To: ganeemead
What does that do to the idea of there being such a thing as a white race that is meaninghfully diffewrent from other humans??

There is no such thing as a "white race" nor a "black race" -- there are Caucasians who have darker skin tones

You wrote There is one nation on Earth which above all others offers a possibility of white people thriving and making things of themselves and that nation is Russi --> that is a nonsensical statement

296 posted on 01/17/2023 3:26:55 AM PST by Cronos (.)
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To: Cronos

bkmk


297 posted on 01/17/2023 3:38:58 AM PST by linMcHlp
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To: ganeemead

Really? You are actually using the “God is on our side” card?

You Ruskies are frickin’ medieval aren’t you?


298 posted on 01/17/2023 4:09:49 AM PST by Vermont Lt
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To: ganeemead
Russia is winning because...Most likely because God is on Russia's side.

Russia is losing - Putin does not care for Russia, only his own ego

Russia loses no matter the outcome of Putin's war in Ukraine

Why do you still think that Putin's 22 year dictatorship has been anything but bad for Russia?

He has systematically corrupted the country, put in his oligarchs, stolen the wealth of the country - he is no better than Chavez in that respect. The average Russian lives in poverty, and I'm not talking about American "poverty" but real poverty; and that's because of the Russian money stolen by Putin and his coterie

299 posted on 01/17/2023 6:15:53 AM PST by Cronos (.)
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To: dennisw

Anyone picking a side in this hell hole of a conflict is a fool.

Z is an idiot who got played like a cheap fiddle. Listened to a bunch of fools and was completely incapable of understanding the geopolitical realities of his nation.

Putin is slime.

Put them both together and you get this mess.


300 posted on 01/17/2023 6:24:46 AM PST by HamiltonJay
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