Washington's war on air conditioning heats up

See my copy and paste from post #27. Meanwhile, here’s another copy and paste:

“…… due to its singular chemical profile, phosgene exposure remained a silent killer when dealing with such 20th-century refrigerants as R-11, R-12, R-113, and R-114. Containing two chlorine atoms and one oxygen atom, phosgene forms when chlorinated hydrocarbon compounds are exposed to high temperatures. These compounds contain chlorine, hydrogen, and carbon, and they become toxic when exposed to high temperatures, such as when checking for leaks.”

Ok, now I get it. You are quibbling over phosgene vs mustard gas. You are playing “choose your poison”. For the purposes of this rapidly deteriorating conversation, it seemed that we were equating mustard gas, phosgene and nerve gas. In your post#77 you stated, “Phosgene gas was a particularly nasty weapon used by the Germans in WW1 and has absolutely nothing to do with R-12 ………….” You have been busy backpedaling from that statement. So here we are with you making false claims about phosgene, and me apparently making a false claim about “mustard gas” (I should have said phosgene). Live and learn.

Whatever dude. You’re flip flopping like a fish outta water. Backpedaling seems to be your forte as you can’t make up your mind whether it’s phosgene gas, mustard gas, or nerve gas with respect to R-12 and an open flame, specifically propane.

Gotta a lot of nerve accusing someone of that which you yourself are guilty of..... pedaling misinformation. Obviously facts, rational thought, and logic are not in your skill set with respect to this topic. Since you’re not interested in facts nor the truth, we have nothing left to say other than to agree to disagree.

As an aside, my coworkers refer to me as Mr. A/C.

Sure, you can try to spin it like that. But the fact is I backed off my “mustard gas from heating r12 with a flame” and (due to my own research and no thanks to you, Mr A/C) changed it to “phosgene from heating R12 with a flame”. I guess you missed that in my last post. You’d like to saunter off with a simple ‘agree to disagree’? Don’t you feel obligated to clean up your claim that “phosgene …has absolutely nothing to do with R12”? Don’t you realize, that when you used your antiquated propane leak detector and the flame turned blue/green you were making phosgene gas?
Other than that, keep up the good work.

I live in a no-spin zone by choice. You ought to try it sometime as you’re less likely to end up dizzy or stuck in circular reasoning. Don’t know why I keep trying to get it through your thick skull. Maybe I’m a glutton for punishment so I’ll give it another go.

Get out a piece of paper and a pencil and show me how you can chemically arrive at phosgene gas (COCl2) from a R-12 Dichlorodifluoromethane (CCl2F2) gas while pulling said R-12 gas through a 1/4” ID 2’ foot length hose into and through a burning propane (C₃H₈) flame. Show your work.

Answer is: it’s chemically impossible but try it anyway just for fun. I suppose you’ll move on to nerve gas (or some version thereof) next because that’s the only one(s) left for you to carry on about. Give it up as you obviously know absolutely nothing about chemistry (or don’t want to know). In addition, work on your reading comprehension, logic, and reasoning skills as it will get you further in life than believing the massive amounts of misinformation on the inter-web.

I don’t need to show you with paper and pencil. You have proven it to yourself many times. You proved it for yourself every time you saw a blue/green flame with your old school tester. I don’t care if you use butane, propane, propylene or oxyacetylene. It is the heat that causes the chemical reaction. And I ain’t no chemist. Any danged fool knows that you don’t put an open flame anywhere near R12. I first heard that in the seventies. By the eighties it was common knowledge. It produces toxic fumes such as phosgene (just maybe not specifically “mustard gas”). Besides, your outdated old fashioned sniffer also had a copper disc. Is the copper in your equation? Here’s another copy and paste for you:
“Phosgene may also be produced during testing for leaks of older-style refrigerant gases. Chloromethanes (R12, R22 and others) were formerly leak-tested in situ by employing a small gas torch (propane, butane or propylene gas) with a sniffer tube and a copper reaction plate in the flame nozzle of the torch. If any refrigerant gas was leaking from a pipe or joint, the gas would be sucked into the flame via the sniffer tube and would cause a colour change of the gas flame to a bright greenish blue. In the process, phosgene gas would be created due to the thermal reaction. No valid statistics are available, but anecdotal reports suggest that numerous refrigeration technicians suffered the effects of phosgene poisoning due to their ignorance of the toxicity of phosgene, produced during such leak testing. Electronic sensing of refrigerant gases phased out the use of flame testing for leaks in the 1980s. Similarly, phosgene poisoning is a consideration for people fighting fires that are occurring in the vicinity of freon refrigeration equipment, smoking in the vicinity of a freon leak, or fighting fires using halon or halotron.”
https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Phosgene

You are becoming redundant, which forces me to be redundant. But I have my limits.

Any danged fool knows that a Halide detector will not produce phosgene, mustard, or nerve gases of any kind. The appearance of the greenish flame is the chlorine in the R-12 reacting with the propane flame which allows one to determine the leak location in the A/C system. No copper disc in this unit. Squawk all ya want about phosgene but you’re just flat out wrong about the Halide detector. Wiki..... really? Wiki’s chock full of misinformation but since you’re relying on it: “No valid statistics are available...”, therefore no valid data. Well informed for years of the various methods of leak detection so there’s nothing you can say that I don’t already know.

I’ll choose redundant any day of the week over obtuse. Now, away with you as my patience has worn thin from your nonsense. I’ll not engage you any further as neither of us are budging from our position and I’m fairly certain the last word will be yours.... LOL.

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