Posted on 04/27/2022 8:05:58 AM PDT by Mariner
Sen. Rand Paul got flak Tuesday for his comments on the Russian invasion of Ukraine, with some people criticizing him for echoing one of Russian President Vladimir Putin's talking points.
During an exchange with Secretary of State Antony Blinken, Paul pointed out that Russia's attacks, in the recent past, have been on countries that were once part of the Soviet Union.
Putin has publicly dismissed Ukraine's right to function as a sovereign nation separate from Russia.
The Kentucky Republican's comments came during a Senate hearing with Blinken, during which Paul raised concerns about U.S. displays of support for Ukraine potentially joining the NATO military alliance, including during former President George W. Bush and President Joe Biden's administrations.
He asked Blinken: "Knowing full well that Ukraine was unlikely to ever join NATO since it had already been 14 years since they said they were going to become members, why was it so important last fall — before this invasion — to continue agitating for Ukraine's admission to NATO?"
(Excerpt) Read more at yahoo.com ...
“Our neocon foreign policy has been a disaster since the Iraq war.”
That may be true, though Afghanistan was a different animal due to 9/11. However none of our wars were wars where we meant to conquer and hold territory.
Russia’s wars are neoImperialist as they each seek and have sought to acquire land. Georgia, Crimea, Donbas and Ukraine.
In fact, the Russians were very upfront about their national security concerns in December and sought to negotiate. The Biden regime blew off those concerns.
We promised the Russians in the early 1990s no eastward expansion of NATO. Even Biden in 1997 warned they wouldn't tolerate that. And, we TEASED NATO membership for Ukraine.
If we had come out and said no NATO membership for Ukraine and pressured Ukraine to adopt the Minsk Agreement, which they signed off on and that would have brought peace to Donbass, this war would not have happened.
As I said, the Russians have better reasons to be in Ukraine than we ever did in Iraq. We heavily armed Ukraine and were running biolabs with deadly pathogens in them there. There is no way we'd tolerate Russia or China doing that in Mexicos.
Your hatred of Russia means you think we can sh$t all over them and lie about the circumstances that lead to this war. We can't do and shouldn't have done that. It WAS stupid and it has on the verge of hot war with nuclear power and/or WWIII.
Stop defending the idiotic policies of Obama and Biden. That is what you're defending or turning a blind eye to.
“We promised the Russians in the early 1990s no eastward expansion of NATO.”
That is a complete Russian propaganda lie. There is no signed document, treaty or accordance where this is stated. It’s a figment of Putin’s Imperial Russia imagination. Russia lost the Cold War. Of courae Warsaw Pact enslaved nations wanted western and NATO protection.
Stop defending Putin’s Imperial war mongering and criminal attacks on civilians.
You are full of it. That absolute FACT:
https://mltoday.com/new-document-us-promised-not-to-expand-nato-eastward/
U.S. Secretary of State James Baker’s famous “not one inch eastward” assurance about NATO expansion in his meeting with Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev on February 9, 1990, was part of a cascade of assurances about Soviet security given by Western leaders to Gorbachev and other Soviet officials throughout the process of German unification in 1990 and on into 1991, according to declassified U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University
The documents show that multiple national leaders were considering and rejecting Central and Eastern European membership in NATO as of early 1990 and through 1991, that discussions of NATO in the context of German unification negotiations in 1990 were not at all narrowly limited to the status of East German territory, and that subsequent Soviet and Russian complaints about being misled about NATO expansion were founded in written contemporaneous memcons and telcons at the highest levels.
The documents reinforce former CIA Director Robert Gates’s criticism of “pressing ahead with expansion of NATO eastward [in the 1990s], when Gorbachev and others were led to believe that wouldn’t happen.”[1] The key phrase, buttressed by the documents, is “led to believe.”
There was no agreement.
Multiple people have failed to provide the documents.
There was no mistake. Russia is too weak to attack a strong country or a NATO country. This is the lesson.
I just proved otherwise. Documents existing proving it.
You are in complete denial of reality.
No. Your ML today Marxism Leninism Today article does not have a signed agreement from NATO or the US regarding not allowing former enslaved nations to the East from joining Nato.
Expanding NATO eastward is something even Biden warned would not be accepted by the Russians in 1997 as did many other experts.
Why they hell would they tolerate a heavily-armed NATO country in their own backyard, one with biolabs with deadly pathogens in them?
We sure as hell wouldn't tolerate the Russian or Chinese aligning with Mexico, arming it and operating biolabs with deadly pathogens in them. We won't and shouldn't tolerate Chinese military bases in the Solomon Islands.
But, people like you want one standard for us and another for them. You expect them to rollover and take what we wouldn't. It's an insane foreign policy and is endangering our national security.
Nice try. But that wasn't source -- the source are official government documents archived at George Washington University:
according to declassified U.S., Soviet, German, British and French documents posted today by the National Security Archive at George Washington University<
Attacking the source instead of refuting the arguments made by the source is what those losing a debate do.
In early February 1990, U.S. leaders made the Soviets an offer. According to transcripts of meetings in Moscow on Feb. 9, then-Secretary of State James Baker suggested that in exchange for cooperation on Germany, U.S. could make “iron-clad guarantees” that NATO would not expand “one inch eastward.” Less than a week later, Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev agreed to begin reunification talks. No formal deal was struck, but from all the evidence, the quid pro quo was clear: Gorbachev acceded to Germany’s western alignment and the U.S. would limit NATO’s expansion.
Trump would have done the same as he did in Syria, when he annhilated over 200 Russian Spetznaz Wagner guys.
Russia broke the rules and they paid the price, via Trump.
Expanding East is really former East Bloc enslaved nations coming West. That is the wages of authoritarian enslavement of countries. Russia lost the Cold War...we won. Get over it.
Russia has now: 1. Strengthen and united NATO with several doubling their spending on defense. 2. Have even more armor from NATO on their borders. 3. Weakened Russia diplomatically, financially and militarily.
Great job by Putin.,
“No formal deal was struck”
Your damned right. There was no deal.
Besides Russia is a serial violator of every agreement they ever signed.
We didn't tolerate Soviet missiles in Cuba. We're not and shouldn't tolerate a Chinese military base on the Solomon Islands.
But, neocon idiots think we can bully the Russians into accepting provocations we'd never accept it. Not only is that double standard, it is insanity that endangers our national security.
Only someone stupid or arrogant would think its been a good idea to enact threatening policies toward a great military and nuclear power.
That comment show outrageously stupid you are.
First, modern-day Russia IS NOT Soviet Union. It is outrageous to treat it as if it is and turn Russia unnecessarily into an enemy.
The idea that we can just bully them into accepting actions that threat their nations security is hypocritical and arrogant. It's this kind neocon, "new world order" nonsense that makes this nation hated much of the rest of the world. You want us to be the world's bully. It's outrageous and endangers our national security because countries like Russia don't have to put up with it.
“First, modern-day Russia IS NOT Soviet Union. It is outrageous to treat it as if it is and turn Russia unnecessarily into an enemy.”
And this shows how completely small-minded you are.
First, Russia dominated the Soviet Union. In effect, they are nearly the same entities, just massaged a different ideology to run an authoritarian system with no real civil guarantees of individual rights. As you see with jailed protesters of the invasion of Ukraine.
Secondly, simply watch the sham elections, jailed dissidents, poisoned political enemies domestically.
Thirdly, look at the foreign and imperial war mongering of Russia, in Georgia, Crimea, Donbass and now Ukraine proper.
Let's see, the country you're rooting for in all this is run by a man (Zelensky) that has imposed opposition leaders, shutdown or suspended all opposing political parties, imprisoned opposition leaders AND openly uses neo-Nazis on its frontlines.
And, oh, every US President has authorized the killing of our enemies. The CIA has fomented revolutions that have destabilized nations, caused civil wars and caused the deaths of thousands. WE FUNDED AND TRAINED ISIS in Syria and the the neo-Nazi Azvos in Ukraine.
Stop acting as if our sh$t smells better than theirs.
That facts are the we, as we did in Ukraine, have been seeking to foment a revolution in Russia. Most Russians don't want another revolution like the one in '90s that crippled the nation's economy and fully behind Putin preventing one by outlawing political activity aimed at causing one.
“Stop acting as if our sh$t smells better than theirs.”
Our chit smells, but their chit is double x superpig excrement. The fact that you buy their chit makes you a useful idiot. Not unlike the commie loving useful idiots during the 40s, 50s, and 60s, who sold us out. You are doing the same.
Not really. We're the ones that trained ISIS in Syria and the neo-Nazis in Ukraine and they are ones that destroyed that evil in both countries..
You absorb anti American propaganda like a champ.
But still absolute BS. We engaged ISIS in Syria and mostly finished them off under Trump.
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