Posted on 03/14/2022 10:05:39 AM PDT by SpeedyInTexas
A detailed list of the destroyed and captured vehicles and equipment of both sides can be seen below. This list is constantly updated as additional footage becomes available.
(Excerpt) Read more at oryxspioenkop.com ...
It appears, that “collateral damage” goes all the way back to Vietnam, where our freedom and democracy bombs were also at work.
Look, I’m not even neccessarily against helping Ukriane, BUT do not pretend like we are the good guys here, that we’re doing this for some moral higher cause. We are breaking our promises to the Russians, we are doing things we would not tolerate ourselves, and the Russians have a reason to be nervous when a world power has the ability to set up shop in a neighboring country.
Finally, do not pretend like this will be without consequences. The Russians can return the favor, may it be selling or even giving arms to nations that we see as threats (example Iran), they can destabilize places that are alied with us, there are even consequences economcically for us (the embrago goes both ways), and this will push (major boost) BRICs along. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BRICS
I hope it was worth it.
All this talk about basing missiles in Ukraine is Russian propaganda.
The US has never planned to install missiles there.
Prior to Russia invading Crimea in 2014, the US barely had any tanks left in Europe. NATO was not a threat to Russia.
The Russian threat has now given NATO purpose again. 5, 10 years from now, NATO will be much, much stronger with permanent armor on their eastern flank.
I was once the guy saying that the world had changed and this was no longer feasible.
I have come to the conclusion that the US should essentially focus more on Latin/South America (resources and low cost labor) and stay friends with the Euro's as well as Japan, Australia and S. Korea but withdraw from the world stage largely. There is no way to remain innocent (the good guy) and meddle on the world stage. You will ultimately have blood on your hands and the real decision maker becomes greed...
Basically we need to stop being the worlds cop and we need to stop pretending that everyone of these wars where we talk about some despot or oligarch as a “madman” is us being the nice guy defending human rights, democracy, bla bla bla. We get into these conflicts because we have economic interests, especially post WWII and Cold War. We have basically become an empire with an expeditionary armed forces that are holding down the security in our “world order.” If China stuffs 1 million people in camps because of their religion, we won't even say much. Why? because China is our #1 trade partner.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-22278037
If Saudi Arabia oppresses religion, women, gays, doing things like hacking off body parts and throwing people from roof tops, we won't say shit either, because they matter a lot to us economically. Heck, they can hack a US resident working for a news paper into pieces, in a fellow NATO country, and we would roll out the red carpet for those involved tomorrow if they landed in DC: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-45812399
Meanwhile our news will talk about those "Russian oligarchs." hahaha
I'm a Cold War baby that grew up overseas. I don't even remember Radio Moscow or Pravda being this bad and we used to sit in the West laughing at that crap!
2001 we started with an earnest missile defense plan for Europe and the Russians complained back then also. In 2002 Rumsfeld went on a tour to basically get all our NATO allies on board with it. And we have built and emplaces systems in Poland and Romania. Once Ukraine is NATO, you can bet money on that we will base it there as well.
2004 The Baltic states Lithuania, Estonia and Latvia joined NATO. In violation of what we promised.
In ~2005 we began arming and equipping forces in the Republic of Georgia. In violation of what we promised.
Even Biden knew this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A—57cFU5zM (1997)
Do you realize Syria has had formal ties with Russia since the 1970s, that the Russians have a navy and air force base there, that they had informal ties since about 1948? Assad's father was basically put in power by the Russians. What a surprise it must have been when the US (Obama) unilaterally decided that a red line was crossed and Assad needs to go. Do the Russians get to decide when some king or price in Saudi Arabia needs to go?
***We have been encroaching on them, not the other way around.***
We are the big guy today. Heck, near all their Warsaw Pact is in NATO today and some of their Soviet Republics. They can't project force into central Europe or go head to head with NATO... What sort of BS is that? That is comical. But they can make sure that Ukraine does not join NATO, and that is what they are doing. If need be, and as this conflict rages on, Ukraine will be damaged, and at that point the West will lose interst since we want an asset, not a liability. We don't want a basket case that costs us money for the next 20 years. The question is if the clown in Ukraine will actually take his country (because he loves it so much) to that point. The Russians will, because for them this is a security/survival matter so they will take it as far as they need to go. But that is just my opinion-
“Once Ukraine is NATO, you can bet money on that we will base it there as well.”
Dude, you are guessing. Again, the US has never had plans to put missiles in Ukraine.
I’m done with you. You are a Little Pukin lover. I won’t respond to you anymore.
“Ukraine STILL has a “significant majority” of drones still available to fight Russia: senior U.S. defense official.
Ukraine is being “effective” using drones against Russian forces, the official said, such as Turkish Bayraktars.”
“What’s funny is that the Russians have claimed on multiple occasions that they’ve shot down more TB2s than the Ukrainians have in their inventory. There’s not been evidence of a single TB2 loss this whole war.”
But starting 2001 we started doing whatever we wanted. Missile Defense was actually the first issue where we broke our promise.
We pulled out of the balistic missile treaty, and do this: http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/06/01/rumsfeld.missile/index.html
http://edition.cnn.com/2001/US/06/06/rumsfeld.nato/index.html?related
I happen to agree with missile defense not because of the Russians, but every other tinpot regime out there that wants a missile and nuke as an insurance policy against Western sponsored regime change: ie. North Korea.
But you need to understand that it didn't stop there. Then you had NATO Eastward expansion into former Soviet Republics (2004), and US Special ops training troops in the Republic of Georgia (~2005). Finally, you had Syria where we injected ourselves and had no damn business (~2013). With that as a backdrop, Ukraine now wants to join the EU and NATO. What did you think would happen?
We flat out ignored the Russians and what they called/asked for (they have been calling us out), what we promised them, and what we would expect if we were in their shoes.
Ukraine is more than the Russians forcing their will on another nation.
***If the Russians fail in Ukraine, they are a world power no more.***
At that point, they are no longer a global power and not even a region power. They are a national power with some regional influence, but the EU and NATO has more influence in their backyard than they do. They have a vast nuclear deterrent capability, so you need to give them some space, but they are history as a world power because the West overshadows them even in their own sphere of influence at that point. Their military and economic tools (to their disposal) are no longer able to push their national objectives on a world stage against ours, i.e. there is no balance of power (what we say goes).
And Western media makes it seem like Russia is on the rise, that they are going to invade Western Europe... What a crock-
Out of logical arguments.
Resort to ad homonym attack.
It works well today because the general populace is so ignorant they don't even know how to think anymore.
“US told allies that Russia requested 5 types of military gear from China, including #SurfaceToAirMissiles. Also #drones, armored vehicles, logistics vehicles & intelligence-related equipment. US did not provide underlying intelligence in cables to allies.”
“Hong Kong Stock Exchange slumps over possible China-Russia aid.
The Hang Seng China Enterprises Index closed down 7.15%, while the Hang Seng Tech index fell by 11%, over fears that China may provide military support to Russia.”
Agree with much of what you say... but (LOL!)
Russia had much less violent means of preventing Ukraine from joining NATO.
And of securing Crimea and the Eastern Ukraine areas too.
IMO China influenced Russia to be this violent instead, for obvious benefit to China and harm to Russia.
The other 17 are already dead but don’t know it yet
We are an empire.
I hate it. Hate it like you can’t imagine. See, my folk fled Europe to get away from grandstanding elites who wanted us to march all over hell for dots on a map that didn’t do anyone any good but the bragging rights (in my Great Grandpa’s diary about the Kaiser). Another side were free soilers, dedicated to a man working to support himself and his own, and with his own power.
But the effete international elite seem to want to improve everyone. Turn them into mirrors of themselves, sipping soy latte’s and buggering themselves. “Helping” people all over the world, while our cities burn, our children don’t know what bathroom to use, and our working age men die of despair because they have limited opportunities.
I do not like neighbors that try to meddle in my affairs, but cherish those who mind their own gardens and help me mind mine. We went from the shining city on the hill to the annoying Karen in the HOA.
And now, those same Karen’s want to spill more of our blood in a losing war MONTHS AFTER RETREATING FROM THE LAST ONE. If NATO goes into the Ukraine it won’t be a grand hunt like our last war. Where there are nice comfortable FOB’s secure. It will be a war like the old times.
I don’t get the sudden rush to start WWIII. I do not like Putin, or Russia. They are trash. But our supposed allies just chopped off a bunch of heads the other day, and our biggest trading partner has concentration camps that a lot of companies funded.
We need to leave the HOA and mind our own farm.
Good post red, factual read.
” “Pentagon official: Russian forces do not have enough men and equipment to encircle Kyiv, let alone take it — Sky News” “
Don’t know about that, but Russia has plenty sufficient forces to turn East, instead, and destroy the Ukrainian army East of the Dnieper.
Gaining more than they had hoped for: land bridge to Crimea, control of the Azov Sea, prime farmland west of the breakaway U republics.
(though the U army is doing very well in the East)
Did we station said system in Romania and Poland, furthest possible eastern locations? Yes.
Your argument please?
Once Ukraine is NATO they can't undo that. Once NATO, Russia loses any control they have in Ukraine. We have shown historically that we cannot be trusted. We violate or withdraw from agreements, or simply ignore them and claim we never agreed to anything... As when NATO specifically promised in 1994 the Ukraine will not be brought into NATO.
Now they are supposed to trust us?
Based on what?
The Russians are very consistent, transparent (on this issues), measured (they are not leveling Ukraine) and frankly justified in their concern.
It is “us” that changes course every few years, and Biden did it again when he basically gave the head nod for Ukraine to enter NATO last October. The clock for armed conflict started then.
Trump was a hawk, yet he respected boundaries. Ukraine can't demand NATO membership, it's an exclusive club you're invited into and we did just that last October. Knowing how these things unfold, we likely increased our “help” for the poor starving children of Ukraine with atgms, manpads, night vision, advisors etc. significantly at that point. As Russia waits the probability of success goes down and pain level for the Russians increases, so you have a timeline that gets created.
But Biden is a Democrat and has corporate America behind him on this (not to be confused with those evil Russian oligarchs) so the media will be lockstep with this.
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