‘Just turned into this orgy’: First accuser testifies at Ghislaine Maxwell trial

I told no lie and did no slander. What lie or slander did I do?

Yes she kept going back. There are lots of ways minors, immature persons, keep going back to do things they aren’t sure about. They think they might be wrong. Those pushing them are way more cunning and forceful. They fear being found out for previous exploitation, feeling guilty for having been a victim. They question their judgement. They are scared of consequences. There is peer pressure. There is other pressure, even from other adults. There is a desire to conform. There is a need to be loved and accepted. OK?

We deal with these pressures as adults too. But as adults we are mature enough to find our spine most of the time.

That is a major difference between an ADULT and a MINOR.

Agreed. Maybe she felt pressured into engaging in these acts, but so far I haven’t heard any testimony that indicates she was physically forced to take part or threatened with force. Maybe that will come out eventually, but so far - no. I’m not saying that Epstein and Maxwell aren’t sleazebags, and their actions in this instance may have been illegal, but to call it rape seems to be a stretch. Statutory rape? Yes. But statutory rape is a far cry from non-statutory rape. I don’t even know why the term statutory rape is used. Maybe “Sex With a Minor”, would be a better term. It’s less misleading than “Statutory Rape” because it accurately and clearly describes the offense. And even “Sex With a Minor” can be misleading. Minor is a legal term covering people under a certain age. In most states anyone under 18 years is considered a minor, but who in their right mind would lump sex with a willing 17 year old together with sex with an 8 year old? And even most 14 year olds are a far cry from an 8 ear old.

There are rumors that Epstein and Maxwell were engaged in much worse behavior on “Epstein Island” than what’s currently being discussed in court. If any of those stories are true, then their both guilty of the most horrendous acts imaginable, and deserve to be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But that’s a separate issue.

yup, i agree

minor is a legal term, which is often an arbitrary number and changes on jurisdiction and country

minor really doesnt reflect individual maturity of the person

there are more mature 14 year olds than some 18 year olds

further these same people who say 14 year olds don’t know anything and are only able to be manipulared and don’t manipulate others themselves, are the exact same people that will say in another conversation, kids today grow up so fast, they know so much more than we ever did at their age

so lets not look at the world through candyland glasses

think about Traci Lords and what she deliberately chose to do

she made a career out of what she did, she knew exactly what she wanted to do, deliberately fooled people and lied about her real information, and did it, and then when the secret came out she cried victim and people bought it

imdont mention this to equate this girl who was used by these two pervs, but i bring it up to the fact that “minor” doesn’t mean immature or not worldly enough to understand what they are doing

plenty of adults don’t fully understand every aspect of what they do or are considering doing

they are legally adults, sure, and that puts the responsibility on them

but that adult may also be less mature than that 14 year old minor who comprehends what they are doing and keeps going back again and again

the bottom line is that what was going on with the two adults, really didn’t bother her that much. minors have a tendency to blab about stuff they really don’t like, or act weird to the point mom and dad grill them because they’re tired of the mopey kid for weeks, or better yet, tell police or some adult in authority they more or less trust

she never did any of this, kept going back, it wasn’t that bad to her

but that makes her look bad socially, so now that it all comes out, she has to now position herself so that she’s on the other side of it, otherwise she’s someone who appeared to not be bothered about it

So, you are admitting that your original statement was flawed.

In contrast to your original statement, a young girl CAN engage in sexual activity repeatedly and then years later say it was wrong, it was assault and she was victimized.

You are just saying that 14 year olds can’t do it.

I am asking where your line is.

Can 13 year olds?
Can 12 year olds?
Can 11 year olds?

I happen to think that the age of consent laws SHOULD NOT be lowered to allow older predators to prey on young girls as you seem to be advocating.

Agreed. Those are all good points. It’s good to see some common sense on the subject rather than the usual reflexive outrage one sees so often around here.

Our laws define various types of murder based on the circumstances (e.g. first degree, second degree, etc.). In the same way, laws regarding sex with minors should also be defined to reflect the wide range of individual circumstances currently covered by the term “Statutory Rape” - a loaded phrase if ever I’ve seen one.

I’m not “advocating” anything. Nothing in my posts says that. Thats disengenuous and just incorrect.

I have just made statements on observations and people who don’t like them, put forth theirmown words and motives and conclusions i didn’t say, and then attack those straw arguments.

Thank you, well said.

People here should watch the documentary about Epstein, although full disclosure it is sickening. They prayed on the poor neighborhoods inland from Palm Beach.

One detail. This girl could have avoided the abuse by becoming a groomer herself. Gizzy and Epstein would pay a bounty for new girls and even relieve the old girl from having to service him.

You said that....

"if you keep going back to a situation you later on decide you don’t like, you are ok with it.

you don’t get to change your mind later

after multiple times of doing the same stuff over and over again"

You are saying this about the 14 year old girl in question.

Again, my question is...If 14 year old girls don't get do it (in your opinion).....CAN 12 YEAR OLD GIRLS DO IT???

Why is this so hard to answer?

It seems you think that 14 year old girls are mature enough to consent to sex. I think that is sick.

I never said All 14 year old girls are. I think someare, and some aren’t. Not everyone is at the same maturity level because they are merely the same age.

I am only talking about this one particular girl.

You dont seem to comprehend that.

Ghislaine Maxwell declines to testify as defense rests case

https://apnews.com/article/ghislaine-maxwell-trial-defense-rests-b126c3a57e66d9003757eda956a756b9