Posted on 11/23/2021 3:05:24 PM PST by Jan_Sobieski
HARARE, Zimbabwe (AP) — At a busy market in a poor township outside Harare this week, Nyasha Ndou kept his mask in his pocket, as hundreds of other people, mostly unmasked, jostled to buy and sell fruit and vegetables displayed on wooden tables and plastic sheets. As in much of Zimbabwe, here the coronavirus is quickly being relegated to the past, as political rallies, concerts and home gatherings have returned.
“COVID-19 is gone, when did you last hear of anyone who has died of COVID-19?” Ndou said. “The mask is to protect my pocket,” he said. “The police demand bribes so I lose money if I don’t move around with a mask.” Earlier this week, Zimbabwe recorded just 33 new COVID-19 cases and zero deaths, in line with a recent fall in the disease across the continent, where World Health Organization data show that infections have been dropping since July.
When the coronavirus first emerged last year, health officials feared the pandemic would sweep across Africa, killing millions. Although it’s still unclear what COVID-19’s ultimate toll will be, that catastrophic scenario has yet to materialize in Zimbabwe or much of the continent…
(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...
Do you intend to be rude, or were you just not very well brought up? You’re not likely to win people over to your point of view this way.
It’s a shame we can’t seem to have polite and reasonable discussions about Covid even on non-Expose threads. If you want to go on one of those Expose threads and claim ivermectin is the magic bullet for preventing Covid, I won’t challenge you there. Y’all can carry on all you like. In return, it would be nice if y’all refrained from bullying those of us who question the efficacy of ivermectin on non- Expose threads. Challenge, yes, and well you should. Bully and name call? Not so helpful, unless your aim is to shut down reasonable debate and discussion.
I am very well aware of the source of this article: AP via Yahoo. It’s the third time it’s been posted and I have commented on it all three times. I don’t particularly trust AP. Sometimes they are fairly accurate in their reporting when the subject is fairly neutral (for example, hurricane damage or a volcano erupting somewhere or a bank robbery or some such). AP certainly leans left and they can be quite biased, so one needs to read between the lines even when it comes to those types of reports sometimes.
I don’t have any particular beef with the article posted, although the title is a bit click bait-ish. It does not appear “scientists” are so much “mystified” as curious and interested. It raises a lot of interesting questions.
For one, it points out that lack of a robust vaccine program may not be a problem in younger populations. They don’t mention the much lower rates of obesity and diabetes, but I imagine that is important, too.
The accompanying photo shows people shopping at a typical open-air market, which ought to get people thinking, too. Compare and contrast with our closed climate-controlled shopping venues.
I found the following quite interesting:
Achan said this may suggest that past infection with malaria could “blunt” the tendency of people’s immune systems to go into overdrive when they are infected with COVID-19. The research was presented Friday at a meeting of the American Society of Tropical Medicine and Hygiene.
This really makes sense when one considers how natural immunity to malaria develops and the mechanisms involved:
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2020.594653/full
It will be interesting to see what research into this phenomenon has to tell us. There might even be therapeutic implications.
I wonder how long it will take for some Kenyan to figure out that he can sell it for $30 (and more) by mailing to the US.
The same is true in nearly every developing country in the world. Some of the stuff you buy in the markets is fake or out of date, but you can find some real bargains if you know what you’re doing. Even in the more developed countries like Thailand.
There’s a problem, though, with all those people self-diagnosing and self-treating. The bugs build resistance more easily, especially as people tend to stop taking the pills once they feel better. Then they bring those resistant strains here with them when they immigrate. TB being the best-known example.
The other problem is corrupt government officials who snag donated drugs (and vaccines) and sell them off, often in neighboring countries. Instead of helping the people who need them, they line the pockets of these greedy goons. I have run into a LOT of that.
The worst is UNICEF. They always provide vaccines and medicines “through existing government structures”. Even when other UN agencies have proof the government goons are selling it off in the country next door and the kids still aren’t vaccinated (and you’ve got quite the measles or whooping cough epidemic at the moment), nope they won’t listen. I totally lost it with one UNICEF witch one time.
They’ll never one thin dime from me! Better to donate to World Vision or some other worthy organization if you really want to help kids in those poor countries.
Sorry for the rant, but this really steams me.
Vitamin D and Ivermectin. There’s a graph out there that shows that African countries NOT on Ivermectin as a prophylactic for parasitic diseases ARE seeing COVID spikes.
In summation, the scientists referred to in this article are shite.
Nay, you are correct, but let me still add two things:
1. Even a person treated for a TB by a physician in a developed country can end up developing a resistant strain -- if he does not complete the treatment! And you cannot ensure that he does unless you lock him up.
2. Worse. What is happening with current COVID vaccines is similar: some immune reaction may be stimulated but not enough to kill off the virus totally.. thus it just puts evolutionary pressure on the virus and leads to new variants. And this is likely the reason why the epidemics continues unabated for two years now (usually two years is the limit for respiratory viruses),,, and yet worse -- it is not conceivable that Fauci et al are not aware of this, thus we should think that they deliberately wanted to make the pandemic worse.
1.So true. It happens here as well, I know. In addition, TB resistance is thought to have developed in HIV+ patients.
2. Could be. Viruses are tricky critters, though, and mutate away no matter what. Corona viruses seem to really enjoy mutating.
We know that more mutations favoring resistance to antibodies (natural or vaccine-acquired) occur more in immunocompromised individuals. The latest mutation out of Botswana is thought to have originated in an HIV patient:
It’s horrific! (rolling my eyes)
On 1.... yes, I know cases too. I even know a guy with fish tank granuloma (disease similar to TB, related bacteria, less serious) who once in a while takes just enough of meds that stop the disease from getting worse... and then loses patience. :(
On 2.... basic truth I think is that if you put pressure on a pathogen that is insufficient to kill it off you put evolutionary pressure on it... meaning you are not causing more mutations but you make mutations survive and then spread. But yes, immunocompromised people are a factor, and in fact in an ideal world you would isolate them until they fully recover.
Interesting.
Covid is engineered to only kill the white man.
You (guys) amaze me with intellectual dishonesty to rival HerrDoktor Fauxi.
Your continued disparaging, denigrating, denial of the efficacy (which is well beyond that of the fake “vaccines”) of Ivermectin points to an agenda.
The colorful pictures and obscure distraction references to ‘Onchocerciasis’ and’Lymphatic filariasis’’ and ‘covid’ map of the world are meaningless when gauging the effectiveness of Ivermectin.
Oh, so Africa is younger, has more sunshine and fresh air and is less obese ?
Fine. Compare apples to apples : the graph/ evidence in post 19 is not from your boogieman theexpose nor Yahoo nor even AP. It is from JOHNS HOPKINS, that good enough for you?
You have studiously avoided acknowledging the conclusive evidence from UttarPradeh India, why is that? does it destroy your meme? Yes it does, fini, game over, the end.
Let’s review:
Your posts align with FDA, NIH, CDC, DNC, Fauxi, totalitarian politician and rapacious Pharma.
Perfect timing for your “new” arrival at FR
No previous FR name
The dog ate you password
And ‘piece de resistance’: your bizarre irrelevant inane ‘Q’ references
So yes, beyond reasonable doubt you are newbie troll.
Those maps were posted in reply to the old map (and graphs based on it) posted at #19, the post *you* asked me to look at in your post #33 (!). The map posted at #19 is an old map showing countries that participated in the WHO APOC program (which ended in 2015). APOC was a program to eradicate Onchocerciasis (river blindness) by distributing ivermectin in high-risk areas of these countries. APOC has been replaced by WHO ESPEN AFRO. I posted a map at #30 showing AFRO ivermectin distribution areas for Onchocerciasis in 2020.
For some odd reason, you think the old 2015 map showing countries which participated in the WHO APOC Onchocerciasis eradication program somehow "proves" the efficacy of ivermectin, yet dismiss the most current and accurate 2020 map of ivermectin distribution under the new WHO AFRO program for Onchocerciasis eradication as "meaningless" and a "distraction". Does that make sense?
So, to review, according to you, the old inaccurate map is meaningful and pertinent, but the current accurate map is "meaningless" and a "distraction". Gotcha.
Being generous, I also posted the map of the much larger WHO program distributing ivermectin plus other drugs for eradication of Lymphatic filariasis (elephantiasis). It covers over 212 million people, many more than the AFRO program's 30 million. If you find it "meaningless" that is your prerogative.
JOHNS HOPKINS was not the source of the entire graphic posted at #19. The source was the NOQ Report, which got it from The Unz Report which republished it from Paul Craig Roberts who got it from "Kbirb" on Twitter who created that graphic based on a Japanese study here: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.26.21254377v1.full-text
This study divided up Africa into "ivermectin countries" vs "non-ivermectin countries" based on the old APOC program (as you can see from footnote #7 (now a dead link because APOC is defunct). Footnote #6: https://www.afro.who.int/health-topics/onchocerciasis Here, you can see an see an interesting map from 2015: https://gamapserver.who.int/mapLibrary/Files/Maps/Onchocerciasis_2015.png
It appears the graphic tweeted by Kbirb was created by or for her (see her Twitter handle @birb_k in upper right corner) or at least she is claiming credit. It appears she (or whoever created it) went to the Johns Hopkins site and plugged in the "ivermectin countries" vs the "non ivermectin countries" in the interactive section for Covid deaths to generate the graphs, then superimposed them on an old APOC map and voila.
So, yes, perhaps the graphs were generated on the Johns Hopkins site, but they were based on faulty assumptions (garbage in, garbage out). There is also another problem with her graphs: they show raw numbers of deaths (which does not take into account the differing populations of these countries), not deaths per million (which does).
You can see K bird's tweet here: https://mobile.twitter.com/birb_k/status/1431339803358814211
It appears Kbirb (and the Japanese authors of the study in question) made some erroneous assumptions, to wit: every person in the old APOC countries was popping ivermectin for Onchocerciasis year-round in 2020 and 2021. Reality: In 2020, ivermectin was distributed for Onchocerciasis in the purple areas on the map I posted, and was taken once or twice per year. (You seem to think "they call it the Sunday pill", but offer no evidence for that. It is plainly stated on the WHO website that single doses (sometimes 5-day courses) are administered once or twice per year for river blindness, and in many other sources as well. Look it up.)
If you choose to believe that map-and-graph meme generated by a Twitterer is "meaningful", feel free. I am free to question it, and question it I do.
The only way to compare apples to apples is if a study were done comparing similar villages, with one group of villages using ivermectin and the other not using it. As I have demonstrated, the graphic at post #19 is based on erroneous assumptions and therefore meaningless.
What conclusive evidence from Uttar Pradesh? I did an internet search on "uttar pradesh covid ivermectin" (without the quote marks) and got pages of articles debunking the claim. Could you post this "conclusive evidence"? A link, maybe? How am I supposed to respond to it if I have not seen it?
Something to consider, though:
Ivermectin may help covid-19 patients—but only those with worms [--Really ?!?!] https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/4017143/posts
High prevalence of soil-transmitted helminth infections among primary school children, Uttar Pradesh, India, 2015 https://idpjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40249-017-0354-7
So, yes, ivermectin may well have been beneficial for Covid patients in Uttar Pradesh.
Let's review:
You resort to ad hominem attacks and nastiness in place of reasonable and productive debate. You make nonsensical accusations. I could also say your views align with The Daily Expose, The NOQ Report and the Twitterverse, but that is unhelpful. If you choose to believe what you find in those corners of the internet, fine by me.
I joined FR seven years before you did. If JimRob wants to know my old moniker, cool. I'm happy to share it with him. You, not so much, although you would certainly see proof I have little faith in the MSM. Even if I really had joined eleven and a half months ago, so what? What's with the bullying and "troll" accusations over that?
I hardly think it cool to try to chase new members (if you truly think nearly a year is a "newbie") who post reasonably and politely off FR just because you disagree with them over something like how effective ivermectin is. There are plenty of Freepers who have their doubts about it. There are plenty who think it's a super-effective preventative and cure for Covid.
Again, I think ivermectin is a wonderful drug. I understand the theory of why it should work. It does have antiviral properties. It looked good in vitro. I had high hopes for it (and HCQ, as well) at the beginning of the Covid thing. But in vivo studies have been inconclusive, and it appears to have only a marginal effect at best. Now we have monoclonal antibodies and other treatments that are proven effective, I, personally will go with those for now.
President Trump seemed to have hopes, too, but when he contracted Covid, he got the following treatment:
Ivermectin and HCQ are not on that list. President Trump chose the proven treatments which had by then become available. Had he got Covid earlier, he might well have chosen HCQ and/or ivermectin. I probably would have, too, way back then. Now, I'll go with MAB, as he did, thanks. In other words, it looks likeresident Trump moved on from ivermectin hopes as other treatments proved more effective.
If others wish to use ivermectin for Covid prevention and/or treatment, that's fine by me. It's quite safe. It's not going to hurt them, and might possibly help. It will most likely help of they have worms (see link above).
There is a LOT of disinformation about Covid circulating. Fauci and friends lied to us. The MSM can't be trusted. I can understand people turning to alternative sources of information like The Daily Expose and The NOQ report and Twitter and various blogs. Some of these sources have valuable information, while others do not. I don't automatically trust *any* source. I do my best to look at the validity of each claim, based on its own merits, quality of research, etc.
The lockdowns and other measures forced upon us did little, if any, good, and caused huge economic and social damage, and most importantly, eroded our liberty. "Two weeks to flatten the curve" turned out to be a cruel joke. The vaccines turned out to be less effective than hoped, and may cause unforseen side effects, some of them serious. Scaremongering abounds, on both sides, now. I do my best to steer clear of it.
Back to ivermectin, large-scale well-designed studies are now underway in a number of countries. If they show that ivermectin is useful in the prevention and/or treatment of Covid, I will greet that news with joy. In the meantime, I'll wait and see.
As for memes, I'm just not that into them, as I'm sure you can see from my posting history. I've only ever posted one, and that was on a footballfish thread.
Given your rudeness, I think I have given you more attention and shown you more politeness and patience than you deserve. Neither the pro-ivermectin crowd nor the ivermectin skeptics own FR. Jim Robinson does. He believes in free speech. You appear to be trying to shut down reasonable debate here. Is that truly your intention?
Well balanced and very informative — thank you for this post and the previous ones on ivermectin (I hopefully found them all and reread yesterday :D)
Thank you (blush)! It was a courtesy ping, as you were pinged in the post to which I was replying. Of course it was not directed at you.
I have appreciated reading your well-thought-out and informative posts here, too. So much to learn! And bouncing thoughts and ideas off each other, sharing information goes a long way.
I’m still interested in the bit about those with natural immunity to malaria faring better when it comes to Covid, as mentioned in my #41. I would love to see this studied!
It may be that those who have had malaria are less likely to experience the “cytokine storm” (something very similar can happen with malaria, particularly P. falciparum), as Jane Achan suggested. Or, it might have to do with how the immune systems of those with natural immunity to malaria target and reduce the numbers of parasites.
P. falciparum parasites are tricky little devils, hiding inside our red blood cells and switching up which proteins are expressed on the cell surface. (In doctor talk, these switch-’em-up proteins are called “variant surface antigens”, or VSAs). This switching up, is of course, to evade detection by our immune system. Always trying to fool us! From the link I posted at #41: “Antibodies against VSAs may function by countering these immune evasion strategies of the parasite”.
It might be both things: (1) natural immunity to malaria blunts some aspects of immune response, preventing overreaction in the form of the dreaded “cytokine storm” and (2) VSA antibodies targeting a variety of different funky proteins (think variants of SARS-CoV-2 and its funky protein spikes).
Studying the mechanisms involved in both (1) and (2) might be helpful in finding new ways to prevent and treat Covid.
It *might* also be one of the reasons there are fewer deaths per million in malarial regions of sub-Saharan Africa:
“Across sub-Saharan Africa where the disease is holoendemic, most people are almost continuously infected by P. falciparum, and the majority of infected adults rarely experience overt disease. They go about their daily routines of school, work, and household chores feeling essentially healthy despite a population of parasites in their blood that would almost universally prove lethal to a malaria-naive visitor. This vigor in the face of infection is NAI to falciparum malaria. Adults have NAI, but infants and young children, at least occasionally, do not.” (NAI = naturally acquired immunity)
Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2620631/
Refers to this part of my post #41:
I found the following quite interesting:
—
“We went into this project thinking we would see a higher rate of negative outcomes in people with a history of malaria infections because that’s what was seen in patients co-infected with malaria and Ebola,” said Jane Achan, a senior research advisor at the Malaria Consortium and a co-author of the study. “We were actually quite surprised to see the opposite — that malaria may have a protective effect.”
Achan said this may suggest that past infection with malaria could “blunt” the tendency of people’s immune systems to go into overdrive when they are infected with COVID-19. The research was presented Friday at a meeting of the American Society of Tropical Medicine and Hygiene.
—
This really makes sense when one considers how natural immunity to malaria develops and the mechanisms involved:
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fimmu.2020.594653/full
It will be interesting to see what research into this phenomenon has to tell us. There might even be therapeutic implications.
And there are other candidates for the silver bullet role: MIR-19 (presumably to be approved this month), or the brand new antibody claim from China: Antibody neutralizing all Covid variants found, Chinese scientists claim
The thing is, that map is *not* a Johns Hopkins map. The graphic posted at #19 may contain graphs generated at Johns Hopkins CSSE github (or is purported to have been) but the map was overlain on it to produce the graphic.
The graphs were generated by simply plugging in the countries designated as “ivermectin use” and then those designated as “non-ivermectin” and generating graphs showing Covid deaths in those countries (purportedly pulled from the Johns Hopkins database). The Our World in Data site pulls from the Johns Hopkins Covid database as well, and can be used to generate graphs. It’s fun. Try it sometime.
The Twitter user added an old APOC map (notice Eswatini is labelled as “Swaziland” on that map?) to the graphs to create the graphic (or “meme” if you will) posted at #19.
***I double dog dare you to find this thing on a Johns Hopkins site.*** They are quite harsh in their warning against its use for Covid and “disinformation spread on social media” regarding its efficacy re Covid.
Even the NOQ Report where the graphic came from (link provided at post #19) admits it came “from social media”. And you can c!early see the Twitter user’s handle in the upper right corner.
The Twitter user created the graphic based on this “study”:
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.26.21254377v1.full-text
See the link to the PDF version of the “study” on the graphic at #19?
Do you honestly think the busy folks at Johns Hopkins are going to generate a memish graphic like that, based on some shoddy “research” submitted by some Japanese radiologists on a preprint server that has not been peer-reviewed or been published in any journal, peer-reviewed or not? Seriously?
Do you think Johns Hopkins (or any reputable entity) would label Eswatini as Swaziland in 2021?
No, that graphic posted by some Twitter user has not completely destroyed my position. (Notice the Twitter user even took credit for it by putting her Twitter handle on it?)
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