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Why a ‘National Divorce’ Cannot Be Civil, but Would Inevitably Mean Civil War
American Thinker.com ^ | October 15, 2021 | William Sullivan

Posted on 10/15/2021 2:39:02 AM PDT by Kaslin

Many conservatives have talked recently about the need for a “national divorce” due to irreconcilable differences with the progressive left. We should be clear about what we’re talking about, though, when we suggest the prospect of a “national divorce.”

We are talking about secession. And secession, in America, is anything but a civil or amicable process, and it’s useless to imagine it would be otherwise.

It’s only truly been attempted once, after all, and it led to the bloodiest war in our history.

Certainly, there are practical differences between secession and civil war. But in America, these are distinctions without meaning, because with secession comes “civil war,” if one chooses, as we have, to characterize the American conflict of 1861-1865 that way.

Perspective matters when it comes to defining these circumstances. The American colonials sought independence in 1776, for example, and would have gladly done so peacefully. In their eyes, the cause for independence from Britain was a righteous assertion of a natural right, and their war was a defensive one. In the eyes of the British, however, the colonials were treasonous rebels to be subjugated with ruthless force.

Such was the state of opinions in 1861, in a remarkably similar set of circumstances. However, there was a difference. In 1861, the seceding states believed not only that their cause was righteous, but that they had asserted not only a natural right but the legal right to achieve independence via legislative self-determination.

And they certainly sought a peaceful separation. As Jefferson Davis openly declared, the newly formed Confederate States of America in 1861 sought “no conquest, no aggrandizement, no concession of any kind from the States with which we were formerly confederated; all we ask is to be let alone.”

(Excerpt) Read more at americanthinker.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
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1 posted on 10/15/2021 2:39:02 AM PDT by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin

Big issue: If you are fighting each other, it’s hard to fight anyone else. The whole world has become a tough neighborhood.


2 posted on 10/15/2021 2:57:28 AM PDT by Coffee... Black... No Sugar (“Salute the Marines.” - Joe )
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To: Kaslin

Just attack the cities. It’s not like we don’t know where they are.

A good old fashioned siege works well. The Romans were good at it. I hear.


3 posted on 10/15/2021 3:03:12 AM PDT by HYPOCRACY (Cornpop was a good dude.)
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To: Kaslin
And they certainly sought a peaceful separation.

The Southern states walked out without negotiation, leaving behind responsibility for national obligations like debt and treaties, cutting off the middle of the U.S. from access to the sea, and taking every piece of federal property they could get their hands on without compensation. Their leaving was meant to be acrimonious.

4 posted on 10/15/2021 3:04:24 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: Coffee... Black... No Sugar

If the territory once known as “the United States of America” can be reduced to a collection of balkanized regions, that effectively removes that late great nation from any positive impact upon world affairs, as ineffectual as the former Yugoslavia. But that territory would be subject to incursions and piecemeal surrender of territory and sovereignty from other players who are seeking resources and relocation of their own “excess” population.

The denizens of those territories are going to look back at the halcyon days of 2017-2019 as a “golden age”, but recognized much too late.


5 posted on 10/15/2021 3:08:55 AM PDT by alloysteel ("Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." - Hanlon's Razor)
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To: Kaslin
But in America, these are distinctions without meaning, because with secession comes “civil war,” if one chooses, as we have, to characterize the American conflict of 1861-1865 that way.

More scare tactics from establishment RINOS to scare us into staying in this failed republic....

6 posted on 10/15/2021 3:17:35 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn...)
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To: DoodleDawg
The Southern states walked out without negotiation, l

Lie. You know it's a lie. In Lincoln's 2nd inaugural address he confirms that in early 1861 the south sent a delegation to negotiate with the USA and he refused to hear any of it.

7 posted on 10/15/2021 3:19:57 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn...)
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To: alloysteel
If the territory once known as “the United States of America” can be reduced to a collection of balkanized regions, that effectively removes that late great nation from any positive impact upon world affairs, as ineffectual as the former Yugoslavia. But that territory would be subject to incursions and piecemeal surrender of territory and sovereignty from other players who are seeking resources and relocation of their own “excess” population.


8 posted on 10/15/2021 3:21:28 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn...)
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To: Kaslin

Waring: Save yourself the time and don’t bother reading this drivel...


9 posted on 10/15/2021 3:22:25 AM PDT by central_va (I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn...)
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To: Kaslin

I would lay down my life, my fortunes, and my sacred honor to defend the ideas ensconced in our Declaration and Constitution. My reward isn’t here but in Heaven. I believe that the cause of this nation is righteous, and whether I’m killed by the first shot or live to 100, if it means liberty continues across this plot of land, it’s worth it to me to try.


10 posted on 10/15/2021 3:24:33 AM PDT by rarestia (Repeal the 17th Amendment and ratify Article the First to give the power back to the people!)
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To: central_va
I knew you would show up sooner rather than later. And I'm not interested in rehashing the rebellion with you and DiogenesLamp and FLT-bird and all the rest. My caution was for the leaving states not to make the same mistakes as the south did.

In Lincoln's 2nd inaugural address he confirms that in early 1861 the south sent a delegation to negotiate with the USA and he refused to hear any of it.

In the first place, nothing I said was a lie. The South did walk out without negotiations, they did walk away from obligations, and they did grab every bit of property they could get their hands on. So even if your claim was right, that the south sent a delegation to negotiate when in fact they were there to demand Lincoln surrender and recognize Confederate sovereignty, it was still after the fact. It was after the walk out, after repudiating responsibility, and after taking everything in sight. Had the south been serious about an amicable separation then they would have negotiated all that before leaving. But they weren't interested in that.

11 posted on 10/15/2021 3:26:55 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: Kaslin

Another damn blog in News section. This american thinker crap is a load.


12 posted on 10/15/2021 3:26:58 AM PDT by Islasorna
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To: alloysteel
Your comments are insightful. Unfortunately, we already have ‘balkanization’, in part thrust upon us by urban pseudo-intellectuals who view anyone outside of their urban area or surrounding upscale suburbs as uneducated/uninformed bumpkins.

There's a reason the term ‘fly over country’ exists.

If we want to end the balkanization there has to be acceptance and mutual respect. We are, however, going in exactly the opposite direction. When a candidate for the presidency characterizes the American supporters of her opponent ‘deplorables’, and this characterization is then parroted by the media and urban elites, mutual respect does not and cannot exist.

13 posted on 10/15/2021 3:28:06 AM PDT by neverevergiveup
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To: HYPOCRACY
Just attack the cities. It’s not like we don’t know where they are.

That's a very black and white view.

Fact is, there are still a fair amount of conservatives in states like MA and CA, and in cities like NYC and Boston... maybe not enough to win elections, but enough to garner 40% of the vote.

On the other side of the coin, there are plenty of moonbats in TX (think Austin) and "flyover" country.

Bottom line is, if it came to a separation, it would be a mass exodus in both directions or a bloody mess.

14 posted on 10/15/2021 3:34:38 AM PDT by C210N (Everything will be okay in the end. If it’s not okay, it’s not the end.)
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To: Kaslin

It’s NOT secession when BOTH PARTIES ARE ASKING FOR THEIR OWN COUNTY.

Secession implies one group is leaving the ‘other’... in this divorce both sides are leaving the other. We’re both moving out and moving on... Don’t let fearmongers stop the process.


15 posted on 10/15/2021 3:55:40 AM PDT by GOPJ (Military suicide deaths last year: 580- By COVID:56 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOC_dcuJO48)
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To: Kaslin

In the civil war example Confederates wanted to leave the US and form their own country... but Lincoln wanted to save the Union. DIFFERENT GOALS.

That’s totally different than what we have today. In today’s world BOTH SIDES WANT OUT. There’s no moral issue involve. It’s just two groups who have grown to hate each other over the years and BOTH SIDES WANT OUT.

WHAT’S TO FIGHT ABOUT?

Both sides agree on the goal... they just have to work out the details TO MAKE IT HAPPEN.


16 posted on 10/15/2021 4:02:30 AM PDT by GOPJ (Military suicide deaths last year: 580- By COVID:56 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOC_dcuJO48)
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To: C210N
Fact is, there are still a fair amount of conservatives in states like MA and CA, and in cities like NYC and Boston... maybe not enough to win elections, but enough to garner 40% of the vote.

Why couldn't the red counties secede and join the red states?

17 posted on 10/15/2021 4:04:54 AM PDT by TwelveOfTwenty (Will whoever keeps asking if this country can get any more insane please stop?)
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To: HYPOCRACY
It really is about the cities.

Urban areas in Red states are mostly leftist, and if you drive 30+ miles outside (most) cities in Blue states, it's Red-culture central - farms, pickup trucks, American flags.

18 posted on 10/15/2021 4:07:58 AM PDT by Psalm 73 ("You'll never hear surf music again" - J. Hendrix)
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To: Kaslin
Couple with this the fact that states wishing to secede would necessarily be deficient in federal power,

This is stipulated, but is not necessarily correct.

19 posted on 10/15/2021 4:13:18 AM PDT by marktwain (President Trump and his supporters are the Resistance. His opponents are the Reactionaries. )
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To: GOPJ; All
In today’s world BOTH SIDES WANT OUT.

I do not believe that is correct.

The entire existence of the left is about dominance and control of those they disagree with.

There is no significant desire on the left to separate.

They demand dominance.

They demand control.

20 posted on 10/15/2021 4:15:47 AM PDT by marktwain (President Trump and his supporters are the Resistance. His opponents are the Reactionaries. )
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