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To: FLT-bird
Because the original 7 seceding states turned down the offer. What is this the 30th time I've answered this?

You haven't answered it. The question is, why didn't the states ratify it if they intended to preserve slavery, which they could have done regardless of what the seceding states did? And the answer is because they never had any intention of preserving slavery.

You don't need to answer this again, because I've done it for you.

Yes both sides amped up the rhetoric. The fact remains that abolitionists simply could not win elections.

1858, 1860, 1864.

The Upper South obviously did not secede until Lincoln chose to start a war.

The war didn't start until after the slave holding states had seceded, and it was the Confederacy who fired the first shots regardless of what their justification was.

No we can't. There was a desertion crisis in the Union Army caused by the EP. That's exactly what McPherson admitted.

McPherson "admitted"? Here's an interview with him, where he is clearly trying to tie those who opposed abolition with "the right wing in American politics", his words. This interview is from the World Socialist Web Site, so the readers can draw their own conclusions from that.

He's doing exactly what you're doing, which is tying slavery to the modern right.

There is zero evidence that it was some kind of political maneuver. He was not an abolitionist and said so many times both in public and in private.

How many times do I have to answer this? He made those comments to audiences that wanted to hear what he was saying. The 4th debate with Douglas in 1858 was a prime example, where he made appalling comments to cheering crowds. If you read how the audience responded, you see what he was working with.

That didn't stop those sympathetic to slavery from accusing him of being an abolitionist, because they saw through this. JD said so in 1858 without giving any other reason for secession. Some of the declarations of secession said so. You want to believe Lincoln when he said this even though he pushed to get abolition done, but you don't what to take the Confederacy's word when they accused him of being an abolitionist.

660 posted on 11/27/2021 6:15:03 AM PST by TwelveOfTwenty (Will whoever keeps asking if this country can get any more insane please stop?)
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To: TwelveOfTwenty
You haven't answered it. The question is, why didn't the states ratify it if they intended to preserve slavery, which they could have done regardless of what the seceding states did? And the answer is because they never had any intention of preserving slavery.

Oh but I have. The North offered it. The original 7 seceding states rejected it. At that point, there was no need to continue. What the North wanted was their cash cow to stay in and keep paying. They were perfectly happy to keep slaves in chains forever to get that. But the Southern states wanted out so they could stop having the North suck their wallets dry. The issue of slavery was a bargaining chip - not the main interest of either side.

You don't need to answer this again, because I've done it for you.

I've answered yet again for you because you obviously failed to grasp the answer given to you.

1858, 1860, 1864.

Abolitionists did not win any elections in 1858 or 1860.

The war didn't start until after the slave holding states had seceded, and it was the Confederacy who fired the first shots regardless of what their justification was.

Lincoln started the war by invading South Carolina's sovereign territory with a heavily armed fleet.

McPherson "admitted"? Here's an interview with him, where he is clearly trying to tie those who opposed abolition with "the right wing in American politics", his words. This interview is from the World Socialist Web Site, so the readers can draw their own conclusions from that.

He's doing exactly what you're doing, which is tying slavery to the modern right.

He openly said it was because of the EP in the quote I cited above. As I've told you McPherson is a PC Revisionist. pssssst.......these guys are all Leftists. Those who parrot their BS are either Leftists themselves or are dupes.

How many times do I have to answer this? He made those comments to audiences that wanted to hear what he was saying. The 4th debate with Douglas in 1858 was a prime example, where he made appalling comments to cheering crowds. If you read how the audience responded, you see what he was working with.

How many times do I have to respond that he said such things in public and in private. He said them consistently. He never said anything to the contrary. There is no reason to think he did not mean them.

That didn't stop those sympathetic to slavery from accusing him of being an abolitionist, because they saw through this. JD said so in 1858 without giving any other reason for secession. Some of the declarations of secession said so. You want to believe Lincoln when he said this even though he pushed to get abolition done, but you don't what to take the Confederacy's word when they accused him of being an abolitionist.

He pushed for slavery forever by express constitutional amendment. Lincoln did not "push to get abolition done". The most he did was the EP and that was a war measure. He openly said it was a war measure and he went to great pains to make sure it did not free any slaves where the Union Army was in control.

661 posted on 11/27/2021 11:46:32 PM PST by FLT-bird
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