You could have saved yourself a lot of trouble and stopped there. That is true, but that was "forgotten" long before the Civil War.
Fighting for Freedom, Black Union Soldiers of the Civil War
The was no Republican convention or Republican nominee in 1864. Lincoln teamed up with Democrat Andrew Johnson as his running mate and they won the nomination at the convention of the National Union Party, and the pair won election as members of the National Union Party.
I'm not sure what your point was here. In 1864 the Democrats in the House managed to block passage of the 13th Amendment. The American voters in the Union replaced many of them with Republicans, and in 1865 the 13th Amendment was passed and sent to the states for ratification.
Usenet "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one
I understand your point. My only point was that when all was lost, Hitler's response was something to the effect of "I didn't want this". I saw the same in the comments you posted from Jefferson Davis in 1865, when he tried to distance himself from slavery.
Obviously, God loves Dixie. Hitler and the rest of y'all not so much. See how that works?
Careful about invoking God. He loves you by grace, not because of how wonderful you are. From the looks of that map and based on your comments He loves Illinois too, so I guess Mayor Lightfoot isn't so bad after all.
And are you assuming I live in one of those high occurrence areas?
[TwelveOfTwenty #585 to FLT-bird #566] The North didn't open up recruitment to blacks until 1863.[woodpusher #596 to TwelveOfTwenty #585] Actually, the North opened up recruitment and enlistment to blacks during the Revolutionary War.
[TwelveOfTwenty #597 to woodpusher #596] You could have saved yourself a lot of trouble and stopped there. That is true, but that was "forgotten" long before the Civil War.
You may have forgotten, but it still happened. Blacks were enlisted in the North and South prior to 1863, and some were cited and rewarded for their acts of bravery. The fact cannot be erased from history by forgetting about it.
[TwelveOfTwenty #597] Fighting for Freedom, Black Union Soldiers of the Civil War
Your source quotation of an 1869 source:
EnlistmentsThe Federal program to admit black soldiers during the Civil War was not without precedent or resistance. American blacks had taken part in the country's defense since the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812. By the mid-nineteenth century, their earlier efforts were all but forgotten.
As it was remembered in 1869, there is no particularly good reason to erase factual Black history in the 21st century. Rather than rely upon snippet quotes from an internet site, I shall present some Black history from an actual book, FREEDOM, A Documentary History of Emancipation 1861-1867, Series II, The Black Military Experience; Ira Berlin, Editor; Joseph P. Reidy, Associate Editor; Leslie S. Rowland, Associate Editor; Cambridge University Press (1982), 852 pp.
At pg. 11:
However firm, official commitment to black enlistment did not of itself put black men into uniform. In the Northern free states, where recruiters had full access to the black population, the number of potential recruits was small. According to an estimate by the Superintendent of the Census, only 46,000 black men of military age resided in those states (see Table 1), so that Northern free blacks alone could not hope to meet federal manpower requirements. The largest number of black men within reach of army recruiters resided in the border slave states that had remained in the Union (Maryland, Delaware, Missouri, and Kentucky) and in those portions of the Confederate states occupied by federal forces before the end of 1862 (especially Tennessee and Louisiana). But in these areas, exempted from the Emancipation Proclamation, white unionists, many of them slaveholders, raised powerful objections to black recruitment. Fearful for their property, they alternately threatened to desert the Union and claimed unflinching devotion to the federal government in order to prevent the enlistment of slaves or even free blacks. At first federal policy makers respected such claims, especially while Confederate forces still contended for military control of these states. But, while the Lincoln administration sought to avoid alienating loyal masters, many of whom carried considerable political weight, it still desperately desired to tap these vast reserves of potential soldiers.
At pg. 14: [footnote omitted]
By the spring of 1865, black enlistment and conscription had placed 179,000 black men in the Union army, forming, together with those blacks who served in the navy, nearly 10 percent of those who served in Northern armed forces.22 Of this number, approximately 33,000 enlisted in the Northern free states. The border slaveholding states of Delaware, Maryland, Missouri, and Kentucky offered a total of nearly 42,000, with Kentucky alone providing over half. Tennessee contributed 20,000; Louisiana, 24,000; Mississippi, nearly 18,000; and the remaining states of the Confederacy accounted for approximately 37,000 (Table 1).
At pp. 39-40 [footnotes converted to endnotes]
Hard on the heels of Hunter’s disbandment of the regiment, Saxton asked Stanton for permission to recruit and arm 5,000 black quartermaster employees, whom he euphemistically termed “laborers” but whose intended use as an armed force to protect lowcountry contrabands he did not disguise.8 Surprisingly, Stanton not only authorized the 5,000 quartermaster laborers but also an additional 5,000 black soldiers, who would “receive the same pay and rations as are allowed by law to volunteers in the service.”9 Stanton’s pay guarantee removed one of the chief obstacles standing in the way of Hunter’s black regiment and paved the way for the formal organization of the 1st South Carolina Volunteers in mid-October 1862. In the interim, Saxton laid plans for his regiment with both Stanton and Massachusetts Governor John A. Andrew and Andrew’s abolitionist associates. Within a month of organization, Saxton named as commander of the regiment Thomas W. Higginson, radical abolitionist and former ally of John Brown. Despite smoldering black resentment of Hunter’s earlier impressment, the regiment filled to capacity almost immediately. Higginson, like others, believed that habits of obedience developed during slavery made blacks ideal soldiers, and he commented repeatedly that only the noblest of motives prompted his men to enlist. Early in 1863 recruitment for the 2nd South Carolina Volunteers began, followed shortly by the organization of the 3rd Volunteers.By March 1863, voluntary enlistment in the 2nd and 3rd South Carolina Volunteers began to lag, so Hunter (who, as department commander, had superior authority to Saxton’s regarding black troops) began another mandatory draft of able-bodied men and then authorized formation of the 4th South Carolina Volunteers. Hunter broadened the age distribution of eligible draftees by raising the upper limit from forty-five to fifty. More significantly, in light of opposition to his earlier draft, he tagged for conscription only unemployed contrabands.10 However, Hunter allowed his recruiters to determine who was unemployed, and as a result they took whomever they pleased. Only a fine line separated conscription and kidnapping as Hunter’s recruiters ransacked the islands.
8 Mansfield French, a missionary to the freedpeople at Port Royal, detailed his own role in securing Stanton’s approval of the plan to enlist black soldiers in [Mansfield French] to Brevet Major Genl. R. Saxton, 4 Sept. 1865, enclosed in M. French to Hon. E. M. Stanton, 24 Oct. 1865, W-2260 1865, Letters Received, ser. 12, RG 94 [K-570].
9 Official Records, ser. 1, vol. 14, pp. 377—78.
10 Official Records, ser. 1, vol. 14, pp. 1020—21, 429—30.
At pg. 253:
98: Adjutant General of the Army to the Secretary of WarLouisville, Kentucky February 1, 1864. Sir: Being informed at this place that the slaves of Kentucky on the borders of Ohio, Indiana, Illinois and Tennessee, were constantly crossing the lines and quite a number of them enlisting in organizations were for the distant states of Massachusetts and Michigan, I determined to see the Governor of this state, and suggest the organization of Regiments within its limits, and thus obtain a credit for the Negroes in the States quota. The plan to be similiar to that adopted for Missouri. I, accordingly, repaired to Frankfort and had a full conversation with Governor Bramlette, detailing my plan that the state might receive credit for the Colored Troops, and that the owners of the slaves might receive from the Recruiting officers, certificates for all slaves who might enlist. …
[TwelveOfTwenty #591] When Americans wanted abolition passed, they voted Republican in 1864.[woodpusher #595] The[re] was no Republican convention or Republican nominee in 1864.
Lincoln teamed up with Democrat Andrew Johnson as his running mate and they won the nomination at the convention of the National Union Party, and the pair won election as members of the National Union Party.
[TwelveOfTwenty #597 to woodpusher #596] I'm not sure what your point was here. In 1864 the Democrats in the House managed to block passage of the 13th Amendment. The American voters in the Union replaced many of them with Republicans, and in 1865 the 13th Amendment was passed and sent to the states for ratification.
This nominal response to my #596, quotes here from my #595.
When voting for the Lincoln/Johnson, the minority of Americans who voted for them did not vote Republican. They voted for the National Unity Party.
As the Republican Party did not hold a convention or nominate anyone for President, the American people did not vote for the non-existent Republican Party candidate. The 1864 vote of the American people resulted in Andrew Johnson, never a Republican, serving all but about five weeks of the four year term. Abolition via the Thirteenth Amendment occurred under President Andrew Johnson, a Democrat before and after his time in the National Union Party as Vice President and President.
[TwelveOfTwenty #592] "It is untrue that I or anyone else in Germany wanted war in 1939." Berlin, 29 April, 1945, 4 a.m. Adolf HitlerSee how that works?
[woodpusher #594] Usenet "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one. [Your snippet quote prematurely ended here. My quote continued.] There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress.
[TwelveOfTwenty #597 to woodpusher #596] I understand your point. My only point was that when all was lost, Hitler's response was something to the effect of "I didn't want this". I saw the same in the comments you posted from Jefferson Davis in 1865, when he tried to distance himself from slavery.
This nominal response to my #596, quotes here from my #594.
You understood my point well, and made sure to omit it from your snippet quote.
Your #592, nominally responded to my #590, by inserting an irrelevant Hitler comment into the conversation, having nothing to do with the content of my #590, and making believe that you had, thereby, responded to something in my #590.
My #590 was a response to FLT-bird #594, additional addressee wardaddy. You were not included.
"I hope the negroes' fidelity will be duly rewarded and regret that we are not in a position to aid and protect them. There is, I observe, a controversy which I regret as to allowing negroes to testify in court. From brother Joe [Joseph Davis], many years ago, I derived the opinion that they should be made competent witnesses, the jury judging of their credibility. (Jefferson Davis: Private Letters 1823-1889, selected and edited by Hudson Strode, New York: De Capo Press, 1995, reprint, p. 188)
That was quoted from FLT-bird #494 and I provided a slightly longer quote from the Memoir of Varina Davis and some additional information.
Varina Davis, Jefferson Davis: Ex-President of the Confederate States of America, A Memoir by his Wife, Volume 2Chapter 71: letters from prison.
From Mr. Davis to Mrs. Davis.
Fortress Monroe, Va., October 11, 1865Excerpt pp. 720-21
I hope the negroes' fidelity will be duly [723] rewarded, and regret that we are not in a situation to aid and protect them. There is, I observe, a controversy which I regret as to allowing negroes to testify in court. From brother Joe, many years ago, I derived the opinion that they should then be made competent witnesses, the jury judging of their credibility; out of my opinion on that point, arose my difficulty with Mr. C—*, and any doubt which might have existed in my mind was removed at that time.…
* An overseer who gave up his place with us, on account of the negroes being allowed a hearing in their own defence.
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[TwelveOfTwenty #592] See how that works?
I see exactly how that works. In the grand tradition of Gresham's Law quoted supra, you descended to the Hitler and Nazi reference and automatically lost any argument in progress.