America thinks the unthinkable: More than half of Trump voters and 41% of Biden supporters want red and blue states to SECEDE from one another and form two new countries, shock new poll finds

UK Daily Mail ^ | October 1 2021 | MORGAN PHILLIPS

[DiogenesLamp]

There's plenty more where that came from.

I very greatly doubt it. That is pretty much the most widely circulated picture of a slave's whipped back.

I have long thought of examining this particular point with a discerning eye. This picture has obviously been used for propaganda purposes to "prove" that slaves were mistreated, yet there aren't that many pictures of slave's whipped backs.

There were 4 million slaves. Given the narrative put forth, one would think there would be thousands of pictures of slave's whipped backs, but this one particular photo is the one which is almost always used. I think I may have seen other photos of slaves showing scars from whipping or torture, but not very many.

So is this particular photo deliberate propaganda, and is actually spreading a deliberate lie? Or does this photo represent the norm?

So how many photos are out there of abused animals? Are these representative? Should we look at one of those and conclude that all Americans commit horrible depravity against animals?

I think most people know that the vast majority of Americans do not treat animals badly, but if you listen to the *KOOKS*, they will try to convince you otherwise.

So is this photo representative, or is it a tool to spread a deliberate lie?

When I think someone is deliberately lying to me, I think they are not deceiving me for my benefit, but for theirs.

[Dr. Sivana]

There were 4 million slaves. Given the narrative put forth, one would think there would be thousands of pictures of slave's whipped backs, but this one particular photo is the one which is almost always used.

Photography was rare, expensive and difficult at the time slavery ended in the states. I don’t see plantation owners having their slaves stay still for 10 minutes while the photograph was being taken while the photographer was there for family portraits.

[DiogenesLamp]

Photography was rare, expensive and difficult at the time slavery ended in the states. I don’t see plantation owners having their slaves stay still for 10 minutes while the photograph was being taken while the photographer was there for family portraits.

4 million slaves. They had years to take pictures of any whipping scars, and they had Massachusetts abolitionists just scouring the world for proof to support their claims.

I suspect the truth is that this sort of abuse was extremely rare, and that the people trying to claim it was extensive and common, are liars.

[DiogenesLamp]

In other words, you are a defender of slavery.

Anyone who refuses to take the vaccine is "anti-science" and they want other people to get sick.

There is no other explanation.

[DiogenesLamp]

You are also wrong about the cost of photographs and the necessary exposure time.

Cost of a photograph in 1860.

Exposure time required in 1864

[wardaddy]

I’m hardly ashamed of my ancestors....

John Rolfe and little Indian girl named Pocahontas
Stephen Hopkins
The Bolling family of Virginia ancestry of Thomas Jefferson and George Washington and Martha

The Byrds another first family of Virginia

The Majure Huguenot family of South Carolina

William Dunbar of Natchez who tried to repatriate his slaves and did some...south’s largest barrel maker for flatboats...the Malcolm McClean of his era

And many subsequent southerners who owned few slaves and smallish acreage ...counted in 100s of acres

Most migrated west into the old southwest and fought with Andrew Jackson against the mostly white red sticks in a nasty political war which carried over into Oklahoma as an internal Cherokee war tween Watie and Ross factions...a reflection of your favorite war btw..

My wife’s ancestry is more gentry with Wades and Barksdales and Other notables

Nearly all those families had slaves. They were a product of their times and people on both sides of the issue understand that and very few.....who were called radicals in that era for a reason virtue signaled over it all like you guys do.

Not ashamed but proud. Also proud we’ve held onto some semblance of our custom and manners and God fearing nature .

[wardaddy]

I'm hardly ashamed of my ancestors....

John Rolfe and little Indian girl named Pocahontas
Stephen Hopkins
The Bolling family of Virginia ancestry of Thomas Jefferson and George Washington and Martha

The Byrds another first family of Virginia

The Majure Huguenot family of South Carolina

William Dunbar of Natchez who tried to repatriate his slaves and did some...south's largest barrel maker for flatboats...the Malcolm McClean of his era

And many subsequent southerners who owned few slaves and smallish acreage ...counted in 100s of acres

Most migrated west into the old southwest and fought with Andrew Jackson against the mostly white red sticks in a nasty political war which carried over into Oklahoma as an internal Cherokee war tween Watie and Ross factions...a reflection of your favorite war btw..

My wife's ancestry is more gentry with Wades and Barksdales and Other notables

Nearly all those families had slaves. They were a product of their times and people on both sides of the issue understand that and very few.....who were called radicals in that era for a reason virtue signaled over it all like you guys do.

Not ashamed but proud. Also proud we've held onto some semblance of our custom and manners and God fearing nature .

[wardaddy]

You have to be utterly brainwashed to think the Union army invaded the south to free the nigras as they called them ...contrary to Ted Turners polemics lol....they invaded to stop my ancestors from seceding. And they were successful. A question settled by arms as Grant said succinctly.

However I will follow your logic and submit that following such logic I would be justified in waging war against the vaunted negro in America simply for this alone....and as you say ....there is more where that comes from....btw....given your disdain for flogging would you have also waged war against the US Navy or the Royal Navy for said offense....or perhaps you would have preferred they simply hanged him...

[wardaddy]

Have you ever read the unabridged North Carolina slave narratives done by the WPA in 1930s

The overwhelming proportion of it was reltold with fondness for the masters...by those slaves still alive then

Today the woke....your people ....only publish that cherry picked with stuff like your Simon Legree transgressions

I’ll find u a copy if you’d like....I bought one at oak alley ten years ago before the turned it into a horrid woke freak show of a tour run by utterly ignorant activists....it’s disgusting to be honest ...lies lies and more lies just like the media

I bit my tongue knowing more about the history of the plantation than the guide...however earnest she was ...did

I did ask her did she know the last house servant slave who stayed with the family forever and had her own drapery business which she made a small fortune with had left all her estate to the children of the masters family she’d helped raise and is buried next to them

Nope...not a clue...of course not.

[wardaddy]

I’ljust point out there were no Republicans to speak or to ask but plenty of Union Republicans were more than accommodating to CSA vets and attended reunions and statue dedications and donated funds and pensions (in formerly Union states)btw to CSA veterans

They felt no need to virtue signal but by your lofty measurements I can assure all were back racist then....all even Thad Stevens his dark lustful heart notwithstanding

On a more current note....I don’t think you’ve surveyed the landscape too well

If you are placing your hopes in today’s modern GOPe you are going to be very sad. They are complete pussies and have abandoned us.

Aside from Trump we are alone for leadership and they either hate him or tolerate him

And this notion 1860 democrats are the same as today’s loons is Glen Beck And Levin and Shapiro neocon nonsense propagated to deflect charges of racism against the GOPe from media and progressives

I’m 64 I recall when there were reasonable democrats...imperfect yes but often more culturally conservative than northeastern republicans were

There is reason Goldwater carried the Deep South....long before we migrated to the GOPe

Let me see Robert E Lee....I’m sure he favored

Gay marriage
Abortion of live births
All gun confiscation
Transsexual rights
Open borders to less than desirables including islamists
Quotas based on race
Hated western civilization and Christ

Oh yeah he was just like today’s democrat wack job

I’ve told u this many times but you’re hard of hearing ....your allies in this crusade you live on a conservative forum are our enemies and they are winning

They own all the corpora in the west that matters except in a handful of Eastern European nations

They determine what people know...

And you ally with them....and for what reason....

[Pelham]

"Claremont Institute Neocons sided with PCers to try to revise history starting in the 1980s"

They sowed the wind, now we are reaping the whirlwind.

"Neocons have now largely returned to their Leftist roots....people like Bill Kristol, Max Boot etc are Democrats communists today."

[jmacusa]

You missed my point entirely. I said “Confederate ancestors if you had any.’’

[jmacusa]

I don’t ‘’virtue signal’’. My people were the immigrant Irish working class and settled in New Jersey. My mothers people came here in the late 1840s.

Her great grandfather was William C. Grace, Chief Medical Steward for The Surgeon Generals Office in DC during the CW.

He wrote The Army Surgeons Manual. You can buy it on line.

My fathers people arrived here at the turn of the century and were trades people.

Neither of my parents ancestors owned slaves.

By your own admission here yours did.

[FLT-bird]

I suspect the truth is that this sort of abuse was extremely rare, and that the people trying to claim it was extensive and common, are liars.

Bingo. Scarred up slaves were worth less on the market. How many people do you know willfully damage their own property? Sure there are some people like that, but they are rare. This is a well known case of a particularly sadistic owner. That is of course why the picture was taken and used for propaganda purposes. Now watch the usual liars try to twist the factual statement that this kind of treatment was rare into "you're defending slavery!" These are the same kind of people who claim everything under the sun is "racist" today.

[BroJoeK]

wardaddy: "I’m 64 "

You're a young fellow, still wet behind the ears, full of p*ss & vinegar, tons of enthusiasm but mere ounces of judgment, and most of that just wrong.

Let me know when you've grown up and are ready to join the adults' dinner table, FRiend.

;-)

** Btw, I'll leave FLT-bird off the addressee list, he's lost it, poor fellow, descended into mere insults & nonsense.
So sad.

[TwelveOfTwenty]

I’m sure there were slaves, who never knew anything else, were thankful their masters didn’t mistreat them as badly as other masters treated their slaves. I’m reminded of the Hebrews, having been freed from Egypt, wanted to go back into slavery in Egypt when things got rough for them in the desert. What did God think of that?

[TwelveOfTwenty]

I would be justified in waging war against the vaunted negro in America simply for this alone....and as you say ....there is more where that comes from....btw....

Horrible, but apples and oranges. We currently have a judicial system for dealing with rapists, although it's effectiveness in certain dem run cities is questionable. Apart from escaping to the North, slaves had no recourse.

given your disdain for flogging would you have also waged war against the US Navy or the Royal Navy for said offense....or perhaps you would have preferred they simply hanged him...

Was the flogging for not wanting to be a slave, or for real offences?

[TwelveOfTwenty]

There were 4 million slaves. Given the narrative put forth, one would think there would be thousands of pictures of slave's whipped backs, but this one particular photo is the one which is almost always used. I think I may have seen other photos of slaves showing scars from whipping or torture, but not very many.

If they had iPhones then yes, but taking pictures was not very common back then. I doubt the slave holders were proud of this anyway. In this case the pictures were taken after the escape.

So is this particular photo deliberate propaganda, and is actually spreading a deliberate lie? Or does this photo represent the norm?

Unless this photo is fake, it is spreading the truth.

[TwelveOfTwenty]

Since you're so fond of what the British press says even though the quotes you posted were from when England still had its empire and wanted their colonies back, here's what the British press is saying now.

Whipped mercilessly, worked to the bone in cotton fields and warned police will hunt them down if they escape: Incredible images show the brutal reality of slaves in America on the anniversary of the end of the brutal practice

[BroJoeK]

wardaddy: "...plenty of Union Republicans were more than accommodating to CSA vets and attended reunions and statue dedications and donated funds and pensions (in formerly Union states)btw to CSA veterans"

Sure, and I'm only alive today because CSA's Nathan Bedford Forrest was a decent human being -- his forces, on a raid in early 1863, captured my great grandfather's company, then released them on parole, unharmed.
They were later exchanged.
Imho, Forrest's act of kindness (as my new immigrant g-grandfather would have seen it) saved Forrest's life at the Battle of Tupelo in July 1864.
It was a Stonewall Jackson moment for Forrest, but he rode right through Union lines, unharmed.
You can look it up.

My Dad's division trained for WWII at Camp Forrest, in Tennessee.
He first met my mother (then jail-bait young) in the 1930s, at a college near your home, in Tennessee, they met again at Valley Forge after the war, & married.
They are buried a few miles from my home in PA.

wardaddy: "If you are placing your hopes in today’s modern GOPe you are going to be very sad.
They are complete pussies and have abandoned us."

I have no idea who this GOPe is that's got you transfixed like a deer in the headlights.
Presumably, you mean Republicans who didn't vote for Donald Trump, which iirc represents maybe 5% -- almost literally just the Bush & Cheney families.
And yet you go nuts using those two families as your excuse to hate on half the country!
How insane is that?

The truth is in 2020 Trump got more legitimate votes than any other president in history, and for 2022 is supporting a long list of candidates which I'd bet will nearly all win their primaries and general elections.

Now FRiend, I hate to remind you this, because I love, love Ronald Reagan, but just like Lincoln in 1864, Reagan chose a Southern Democrat (elder Bush, yes, think about it!) as his Vice President, who then ran as "kinder & gentler" than Reagan -- an impossibility, but the country bought it.
And that's how we got here today.

wardaddy: "Aside from Trump we are alone for leadership and they either hate him or tolerate him"

Trump has millions of supporters, in & out of political office, and they will support his candidates in 2022 & 2024.
Whether they can all overcome the Democrats' vote-stealing machine we can't know today, but I'm not betting against Trump, not now, not ever.

wardaddy: "And this notion 1860 democrats are the same as today’s loons is Glen Beck And Levin and Shapiro neocon nonsense propagated to deflect charges of racism against the GOPe from media and progressives"

Sorry, but now you're just babbling nonsense.
So let me explain this to you, listen up: as Reagan first pointed out, every human being is born with a, let me call it, "inner Democrat", your childish nature which says, "I want it, I feeeeel it, I need it, I will it take from you, I will use any means necessary (i.e., lie, cheat, steal), and I hate you for opposing me".
Now good, decent adult citizens learn to control their "inner Democrats" and so practice honor, honesty, integrity, kindness, generosity & self-sacrifice towards their fellow citizens -- those people are Republicans.
So Southern Democrats were the original Democrats and defined what it means to be a Democrat -- they put party before country, they were "strict constructionists" but only for their opponents, once in political power Democrats did whatever they wanted to.
They lied, cheated & stole elections from Day One until today.

And here's a fact you likely overlook: the most radical Democrat leader, Nancy Pelosi, is herself the daughter of a Southern Democrat politician (look it up!), and her most loyal supporters, the Black Caucus, learned their politics from the "Solid South" Democrats.

So your Democrat ancestors taught today's Democrats how to behave politically, and now you want us Republicans to be that same kind of people?
No, FRiend, that's not going to happen, not now, not ever, not so long as there are still decent, honorable, honest citizens.
Republicans are the "nice-peoples" party, and we have to win that way, even if it drives our own ex-Southern Democrats nuts. ;-)

Enjoy your day!