If Senator Harris Wants to Play the 1864 Game...

[cotton1706]

Chief Justice Roger Taney died on October 12, 1864.

Lincoln nominated a successor on December 6th.

The Senate confirmed on December 6th.

Same Day.

So let's skip the hearings and have a vote, Senator Harris.

Also keep in mind that presidents, senators and congressmen were sworn in in March then. So the Senate at the time would have confirmed anyway.

[jeffersondem]

“Taney was the Chief Justice who wrote Dred Scott. Which we were then undergoing a Civil War to attempt overturning.”

The idea that Lincoln used the military to violently overthrow the pro-slavery U.S. Constitution is not new. I have never heard it said quite so succinctly that Lincoln fought a war to overturn Dred Scott.

Maybe he did.

[Tennessee Nana]

Maybe its the Democrat who ran in 1864 that Harris wants now...

McClellan didnt support the end of slavery...

[SamAdams76]

The point here is that Abe Lincoln DID fill the Supreme Court slot during his first term. He might have waited until after the election but even had he lost the White House and even if the Republicans had lost the senate, the position would have been filled by Lincoln just the same, as the incoming government would not be sworn in until the following March.

Further, Lincoln's eventual nominee for the slot was Salmon Chase and Lincoln was using Chase (and other potential SC nominees) to stump for him during the campaign! Thus, Chase was in all likelihood nominated to the Supreme Court as a "reward" for helping get Lincoln re-elected! Not exactly the "virtuous act" that Kamala was trying to put past us last night.

Imagine the outcry today if President Trump did the same thing as Lincoln. Let's say that he had Amy Coney Barrett and the other potential nominees doing campaign rallies for him across the country. Then after the election, Trump nominates Barrett in December, commending her for the fine job she did for him on the campaign trail, with the Senate immediately confirming her.

[JohnBovenmyer]

One of the very first residents here, which never was slave territory, was Dred Scott. Here he should have become free. Yet my pioneer hero was dragged off in chains. The first bridge across the Mississippi, a decade later, ended a short walk from where he had lived. A riverboat hit and burned it down. Lincoln successfully defended the bridge builders in the second must important legal case involving my community. Abe was right on the first one from its start, but it took him awhile longer to win it.

[SES1066]

Chief Justice Roger Taney died on October 12, 1864.
Lincoln nominated a successor on December 6th.

Some more of a PROPER "little history lesson" and context here. US Supreme Court Chief Justice Roger B Tawney, 28 years as the 5th Chief Justice and successor to John Marshall in that position, served from being appointed by President Andrew Jackson in March 1836 till his death in 1864. Tawney was a slaveholder, author of the 7-2 majority opinion of the 1857 Dred Scott v. Sandford Decision, pro-Confederacy, ANTI Lincoln and ANTI any continuation of the Civil War beyond a Southern victory.

The US Senate was in RECESS at the time of his death until reconvening in December, post the General Election of 8 November 1864. So there were 27 days to the Election and just under 2 months to a reconvened lame-duck US Senate. So what did the US General Election look like at that date of 13 October 1864?

The Democrats divided themselves between pro-war 'War Democrats' and 'Copperhead Democrats' who were in favor of peace now and an independent Confederate States of America. Before the Republican Convention, an alliance was agreed to between most Republicans and some War Democrats to form a "National Union" ticket. This is how&why Lincoln's former Vice President Harry Hamlin got replaced by 'War Democrat' Andrew Johnson.

Some of the more vigorous anti-slavery Republicans then split-off into the "Radical Democracy Party" to run the 1856 Republican Candidate, John C Fremont. Fremont, former US Senator, former Union General & Commander of Union Army west of Mississippi, had been dismissed by Lincoln in November 1861 for a too early call for slave emancipation.

The remaining Democrats of the 25, non-Confederate, states formed a ticket with 'War Democrat' General John B McClellan and with a 'Copperhead Democrat' campaign platform for peace, which McClellan rejected immediately. However, the slim hope that the Democratic Party had of Fremont's Radical Democracy Party splitting the opposition died when he withdrew from the election (September 1864) and cast his support to Lincoln because of their platform promises.

Thus, President Lincoln, after having real fears for re-election in early 1864, now had such Union victories as the taking of Atlanta AND a very weak opposition. He could do a 'recess appointment' at that time but in the midst of the Civil War and a brightening future, the need was not there. That he was going to nominate his 1860 Republican rival, Salmon P Chase, a favorite of the Radical Republicans, was no great surprise, but waiting until after the Election was good politics.

So Senator Harris' history lesson reveals a very biased and limited view of that history. A good demonstration of 'cherry picking' of facts!

[ridesthemiles]

IIRC, Presidential elections were NOT held in November in 1864.

They were held in March due to winter weather & poor roads, which hampered voters from accessing the polls.

ALSO-—I believe that the Pony Express carried the news of the Presidential election early in 1860—the same year the XP was founded. Pony Express ran from April of 1860 to Oct of 1861, IIRC.

[SES1066]

Not sure what books you’re reading but that quote is attributed to philosopher George Santayana.

Karl Marx (1818-1883)
The full, non-synopsised quote is: “Hegel remarks somewhere that all great world-historic facts and personages appear, so to speak, twice. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce.” [18th Brumaire of Louis Bonaparte] Karl Marx 1852

Jorge Agustín Nicolás Ruiz de Santayana y Borrás / aka George Santayana (1863-1952)
[Reason in Common Sense, p. 284, volume 1 of The Life of Reason] 1905. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"

Sorry, but I think I am correct here.

[rarestia]

Re-read your OP. The italicized print was attributed to George Santayana. I’m not arguing with you over the Marx quote, just that you referenced the Santayana one.

[cotton1706]

Swearings-in were in March. Elections have been in November since 1845.

https://www.history.com/news/why-is-election-day-a-tuesday-in-november

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1864_United_States_presidential_election

[SES1066]

IIRC, Presidential elections were NOT held in November in 1864.

Sorry, major error here

The 1864 General Election was held in the non-Confederate US States (25) on that date of 8 November 1864. Two Confederate States (CSA), Louisiana and Tennessee, had elections in the Union-controlled portions but those Electors were not counted. Abraham Lincoln, National Union Party, won 22 States, 212 Electors and 55% of the popular vote. General George B McClellan, Democratic Party, won his home state of New Jersey and 2 more, Delaware and Kentucky, for 3 States, 21 Electors and 45% of the popular vote.

Re-elected President Abraham Lincoln (56) gave his 2nd Inaugural Address on 4 March 1865, 36 days before CSA General RE Lee's surrender at Appomattox and 41 days before Lincoln's Assassination by JW Booth. "With malice toward none with charity for all with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right let us strive on to finish the work we are in to bind up the nation's wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan ~ to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations."

[SES1066]

Re-read your OP. The italicized print was attributed to George Santayana. I’m not arguing with you over the Marx quote, just that you referenced the Santayana one.

SMILE, I see my conflation of both, but give me credit, you basically referenced both!

[rarestia]

I am a useful idiot, yes. And to be honest, I didn’t know about the Marx attribution.

[SES1066]

I am a useful idiot ...

NO, DISAGREE! Idiot (=stupid) is a poor word when you should use 'ignorant' even though you weren't ignorant about the Santayana quote! It is a beautiful day here in Florida when I've help a fellow FReeper Floridian (FFF) find a new factoid! SALUTE!

[Mr. K]

Ok.. It was not in quotes, not attributed to harris, so I thought it was directed at the poster.

Sorry!

I gave up after 45 minutes- I could not deal with Horizontal Harris’s rude behavior and lies. I could feel my blood pressure going into dangerous levels.

[SES1066]

Nothing to be sorry about as any one of us can go squirrel. Still, I’ll be glad when these true idiots return underground to lick at their self-inflicted wounds!