Confession: I DO NOT support George Floyd and I refuse to see him as a martyr.

Facebook ^ | 6/3/20 | Candace Owens

[Borges]

I don't think you need a Facebook account to see this video

[Mr Ramsbotham]

Then this hypothetical man swallows the drugs he was selling when the first cop showed up... and by the time the second cop shows up the drugs start to “kick in” and he gets agitated; and then he gets very sick; and then between the drugs and the adrenaline and the way he was restrained he died.

I think the drug use thing is a relatively common scenario in cases where suspects die in police custody. That scenario seems plausible to me. I suppose we'll have to wait and see how things play out.

[William Tell]

I just watched the video.

I'm out of breath listening to her.

The solution to the racial problems in the country is CANDACE OWENS.

[Red in Blue PA]

Candace has guts. Love her.

She has stood up for the truth along with Larry Elder, David Webb, and Jason Riley.

[MarDav]

I bow in the presence of your remarkably superior intellect!

[mass55th]

Aw shucks...t’wasn’t nothin’.

[JayAr36]

Is someone saying he didn’t die from COVID. WOW!

[MarDav]

I'm guessing conditions for your friend's experiment were somewhat different than those that existed for Floyd (was she struggling? what sort of pressure was being exerted - you, yourself said we don't know and I mean, come on, it was his wife, he wasn't about to lean into it). That said, my comment included the phrase "contributed to his death". Given what all the medical examiners here at FR have to say about what caused/what may have caused/what likely caused/what could have caused Floyd's death, I would be willing to go out on a limb to say that, coupled with all the pre-existing/existing at the time conditions being experienced by Floyd, the officer's knee to his neck for 8 or so minutes definitely contributed to his ultimate death AND that the likelihood is quite, quite high that ANY juror sitting in a courtroom watching the full 8 minutes is going to agree with that rendering of events.

All a good DA will have to do is to utilize the same courtroom technique used by the attorneys who defended the LA cops in the Rodney King beating trial. If you didn't see it, the lawyers would play the video, stop after a second or two, ask a question of the officer about the procedure used, resume tape, stop tape after a few seconds, ask a question about procedure, allow for response by the officer, resume video. This testimony went on for what seemed hours all in an effort to show the officers had cause to continue their take-down. Envision that same courtroom tactic employed by a DA. Role tape, show Floyd on ground, stop tape, question witness (police training expert/medial expert), resume tape, repeat. When you get to the point in the tape where Floyd stops moving/resisting (when was that? minute 5?) continue the process. Show tape. Stop after a few seconds. Question witness. Continue this for 3 minutes-worth of "expert testimony." Any DA worth his salt will have that jury in tears.

We can talk all day long about this medical condition, that drug in his system, prior record...won't matter. That cop had him down using what I understand is an approved submission tactic (probably not going to be one that is allowed after all this is over), then he proceeded to maintain that tactic long after there was any need. Suspect died in custody. Arresting officer used unnecessary (not illegal - just unnecessary) force (at a certain point). Sounds like a fairly simple case.

[marktwain]

The defense used that sort of frame by frame technique in the first Rodney King trial.

All the officers were acquitted.

[MarDav]

I remember watching it. I don’t think that is a strategy open to the defense in this case, but, in view, the prosecution can sure use it to paint a powerful picture.

[marktwain]

It certainly is open to the defense.

I can envision it now:

See where George Floyd lifts his shoulder? That proves the pressure was not enough to block his blood flow.

See where George Floyd is talking? That proves his airway was not blocked.

Enough of that and reasonable doubt about excessive force is introduced.

[MarDav]

Sure. Then the DA takes over and resumes the video after minute 5-5 1/2 (or whenever George Floyd appears to have lost consciousness). Think of how devastating something like the following will be to any defense case that suggests that all 8 plus minutes on his neck were necessary:

DA: See where George Floyd is no longer moving. In your professional view, has the witness stopped resisting?
Witness (Police trainer): He has stopped resisting.
DA: What do police procedures call for at this point?
Witness: Assess the situation. See if suspect has indeed stopped resisting (or is playing around). See if suspect is responsive.
DA: Okay, let’s watch more of tape (play another 5-10 seconds and stop). Has the witness moved.
Witness: No.
DA: What does proper police procedure call for at this point?
Witness: Continue to assess, continue to monitor suspect for possible movement or resumption of resistance.
DA: Okay, let’s continue with the video (show 20 more seconds - we’re up to maybe the sixth minute of the situation at this point). What is happening now.
Witness: Police is continuing his position on suspect, continuing to monitor the suspect.
DA: At this point the suspect has stopped moving for 30 seconds, what are some of the things that are involved in monitoring the suspect.
Witness: Check for resistance, force against your force.
DA: Check for breathing?
Witness: Possibly
DA: Check for pulse
Witness: Maybe, depends...
DA: Depends on what?
Witness: Depends on whether the officer feels that the suspect has offered no display of resistance and is in distress.
DA: If a suspect is in this kind of a situation, how long would it take for a police officer to reasonably conclude that the suspect has demonstrated a sufficient amount of time offering no resistance that might move the officer to taking the suspect’s pulse.
Witness: Hard to say.
DA: Approximately? A minute? Two minutes? 30 Seconds?
Witness: (I’m offering a guestimate here). Maybe two minutes.
DA: Okay. continue with video (video now moves from minute 6 to minute 6.5) We are now at a point where the suspect has offered no resistance for one minute. Is the suspect resisting?
Witness: No.
DA: In your professional opinion, as a police trainer, is it time to release the pressure on the suspect’s neck, conduct a more thorough assessment of his condition?
Witness: Possibly
DA: Possibly?
Witness: Every officer might have a different feel for the situation. The arresting officer here, alone, knows exactly the form of resistance he has encountered, and the threat the suspect still poses.
DA: So in your professional opinion, the suspect still might pose a threat to the arresting officer even after he has been pinned down underneath the officer’s knee for 6.5 minutes, the last 1.5 minutes of which he has shown no sign of resistance or of consciousness?
Witness: It would be up to the arresting officer here to make that assessment.
DA: Okay, let’s continue with the video (you could show another minute - this takes us to minute 7.5, the suspect has not shown any movement or resistance for over 2 minutes. ). Is the suspect moving?
Witness: No.
DA: In your professional opinion, and let me remind you, we have passed the 2 minute threshold you offered as a possible point where this particular line of subduing a suspect should probably end if resistance is no longer being offered, in your opinion, should the officer at this point release his knee from the neck of the suspect and assess him further.
Witness: (Witness has 2 choices here: No (Witness has mislead the court - will not look good, probably won’t help the defense, instead create the impression that the “blue wall of silence” has descended) Yes (and the DA has established excessive force)
DA: Okay. Let’s continue the video (shown in silence.)

[marktwain]

You have your opinion.

I see plenty of reasonable doubt.

I do not see a jury convicting the officer of depraved murder.

Negligent homicide? Maybe.

And, there is this scenario:

Cross examination:

Is it possible George Floyd would have died with or without the officer's knee in the restraint position?

Witness: Absolutely. The combination of pre-existing conditions and drugs in the system could easily have caused death whether the officer's knee was there or not.

Reasonable doubt.