Posted on 05/30/2020 7:22:23 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
After a couple of recent health incidents I have learned that a person’s blood O2 level can crater and it can take a long time to return to normal levels. So Floyd may not have had his air totally cut, but his blood O2 levels could still have reached dangerous levels and then underlying conditions can kick-in.
The policeman could not have known the perp had two serious heart conditions- the perp himself knew about his serious heart conditions, yet he chose to get into a very strenuous situation by resisting arrest
If a person has a heart condition- a serious one, and they know they shouldn’t do anything strenuous, and they do it anyways- don’t you think they have brought the results on themselves if anything happens?
Again, the police did not know his heart conditions, and could not have known that the fella’s own decision to struggle in a strenuous manner would result in a heart attack IF that is what killed him
We don’t know what killed the man yet- it’s very probable that his heart conditions, and his fateful decision to fight the police, killed him- The police can’t ask the man to stop fighting hem in an effort to assess if he has any medical conditions at the time- The fella has at that point forced the issue- a fight, and there’s nothing the police can do but try to subdue him at that point-
His dangerous underlying conditions could have tanked his O2 levels- heart attacks will do that- many heart attack victims can’t breath- get light headed- and pass out before dying-
Just watched the thing all the way through for the first time.
Certainly the cop looks uncaring, and it SEEMS pretty obvious that he should have been a little concerned that the guy in his control was in deep trouble. I can totally see a manslaughter ... or not ... depending on autopsy and toxicology.
Certainly CAN see murder 2 if the knee is not standard procedure and it's shown the force from the knee was the killer, and the cop should have known that, and that without the knee George would have lived.
But I don't think his entire, or half weight is on his knee which is on the neck. It looks like he's just using enough pressure to hold him down. That notion is supported by the guy talking in the first couple minutes.
But neck's are soft. Doesn't take much pressure to cut off blood through 1 artery. I'm gonna guess George had a heart attack that was not helped by a guy putting some pressure on his neck.
It sure LOOKS like the cop is at least in part responsible, certainly he looks uncaring as hell. At what point were the medics called?
But KNEELING conveys 'half your weight' on the guys neck. He's not KNEELING on the neck, I practically guarantee all his weight is on his right leg and he's pressing with the knee enough to hold him down. Pressing just about as much as he would if he were using his hand or arm. That is, he's propped on his right knee, and controlled (certainly one could say too hard - I'm not saying it's NOT too hard) press with the left knee.
I'm NOT saying he's innocent - he certainly looks at the very least ethically guilty, and maybe/probably legally guilty (not a lawyer, not a doctor, will reserve judgment til facts come out.)
Sure as hell couldn't be a better visual for the left and BLM types!
Strikes me as a cop who is sick of seeing the same sh*t over and over and over, probably was using a legal maneuver by using the knee like a hand -> to hold him down, not kneel on him and didn't give a crap about the optics or George for that matter.
Guess we'll find out! Not gonna be pretty if he's technically, legally, not guilty of anything. If the guy had a heart attack and the pressure from his knee was standard police procedure, and if the medics had been called and he was just waiting for them ... and again if the knee was only holding, and is an acceptable form of restraint ... I'm not saying he's innocent in the eyes of God or ethically ... but ... What are you going to convict him of IF all the above is true? Being an a**hole?
Let's hope he DID break the law in some way, because if he didn't ... it's going to be the biggest sh*tshow ever if he doesn't get convicted of at least manslaughter/negligent. That picture ... well the left and Soros and those who hate America could not have staged it better.
I have a neck problem. I’m pretty sure if I had a 250-lb cop kneeling on the side of my neck for 8 full minutes I also would have stopped breathing. I think the point that several are making here is that the police officer’s actions were negligent. And that’s enough to bring a manslaughter charge.
Except, the police did not cause the situation, and police have qualified immunity from civil lawsuit.
I am becoming more convinced, the police will be able to articulate reasonable explainations for everything that happened.
They were fired before they were even debriefed.
The mayor and police chief did not follow basic proceedure.
*** When was the last time you saw white people burn down their own city?” I know the Union soldiers burned down Atlanta in the Civil War; but, that wasn’t their own city. ***
I was thinking about that myself. Soldiers burning a city is one thing, but I’m thinking that it was the Draft Riots in NYC in 1864. Those were definitely white people burning their own city — not invading troops.
“”””””’ I’m not saying he’s innocent in the eyes of God or ethically ... but ... What are you going to convict him of IF all the above is true? Being an a**hole? “”””””””””””
You have to be somewhat of a Billy Badass to work down there. It’s the first time I remember seeing FREE MUMIA spray painted all over.
For many years I did projects in the worst areas of Minneapolis and St. Paul including a lot at the public housing projects.
I quit going into those two cities to work several years ago. I’m too old to run and it is just not worth getting shot over.
The cop had to subdue Floyd in that manner because he was fighting and resisting them so much as does an unruly animal. He was not behaving and making it difficult for the cops and putting their lives in jeopardy and is why Floyd was in the situation he was in. Unless you judgmental folks have ever had a LE position working with unruly perpetrators that can turn on one and kill in seconds I’d not second guess his actions. I had to serve during the Fireman’s Riots in Memphis the Summer of 1978 and was shot at, attacked and had to deal with this type of aggressiveness unseen by the general population. Even if Floyd had been titty pink his treatment would have been the same and my opinion been the same. It’s easy to call a person racist when parroting the MSM, Democrats, and liberals.
[[qualified immunity]]
very important point-
“Qualified immunity is a legal doctrine in United States federal law that shields government officials from being sued for discretionary actions performed within their official capacity, unless their actions violated “clearly established” federal law or constitutional rights.”
“Qualified immunity is a type of legal immunity. Qualified immunity “Qualified immunity balances two important interests—the need to hold public officials accountable when they exercise power irresponsibly and the need to shield officials from harassment, distraction, and liability when they perform their duties reasonably.” “
The prosecution will try to prove the cop exceeded his authority- the police will defend their actions as necessary given the circumstances of the situation they were caught in because of the actions of the man who resisted their efforts to put him in the car -
The police will try to prove they are due qualified immunity, while the prosecution will try to prove they aren’t due any qualified immunity
Dang, sorry about the long link- uggh-
Yes. I don’t believe the photo in 59 is the reverse shot Im thinking of but lets take a look at that anyway.
Look at Chauvin. No, not at his knees, his hips and the position of his thighs. The hips don’t lie. His weight is almost entirely on his right leg and that knee is on the upper thoracic part of the back likely as many officers have commented “between the shoulder blades.” This would partially inhibit chest expansion. Look at the next officer. His weight appears to primarily be on his left leg which is over the lower thoracic contributing to problems with chest expansion and inhibiting abdominal breathing (his right is somewhere over the lower lumbar to upper humerus, hard to see and relatively unimportant).
So why is Chauvins leg there? Well despite all the posts and statements made by various people about “Im a cop” or “I was Secret Service” or any of the rest of the bullshit being tossed around, those people who actually have experience working with those with drug/mental health problems can tell you that once restrained the person restrained will often begin violently flailing their head around once the struggle is mostly ended. Sometimes, depending on their position relative to yours, they want to try to injure you, back of head to face/crotch/other soft point. Sometimes its because they just want to injure themselves.
Why?
Well in some cases its because they just want to beat themselves up so they can claim abuse. Sometimes its just because that’s one of the things that people with drug/mental health problems do, then its some other agent that later claims that there was abuse by the person that had to attempt restraint. (This is also likely why the officers didn’t “just stuff him in to the car” when he went stiff. Too many witnesses would claim they abused him by shouldering him in and he may have hit his head or something “proving” they were abusing him.)
They can be quite violent to themselves. They think nothing of crushing their own nose or shattering an ocular orbit. There is a person Im aware of in community care that spends their day kneeling and violently pounding their own head on the ceramic tile/hardwood floor for hours. On occasion this person breaks their own skull, its something people with that diagnosis do. (No, I cant “just put a helmet on them” because believe it or not THAT is “abuse”. I cant “just put rubber on the floor” because THATS “abuse” because “they have a right to live in a normal home.”)
The leg, in my case usually an arm, is not there to exert any significant pressure. Its a bumper, a motion detector and an anti range of motion device, used to protect not just me but the person being restrained from harming themselves.
Apparently the prosecutor believes the cop to be the proximate cause of death and believes he can prove it
—————————————————-
More likely, the DA was trying to stop a riot. At his press conference, he gave some milquetoast statement about how he had “probable clause“ to charge the officer. That isn’t very compelling. Two things can be true at the same time. The officer used excessive force, but that excessive force had nothing to do with this man’s death. Unfortunately, a collection of savages decided not to wait for the facts to come in, but instead burn down cities based on incomplete information. The criminal complaint indicates that Mr. Floyd was shouting “I can’t breathe“ while he was standing up! This goof was obviously under the influence of some drug, The police were holding him down as a fear he was a threat to himself or others, and he ultimately died of cardiac arrest triggered by his drug use. If that’s the case, having a knee on someone’s neck has absolutely no connection to his death.
Still in any case ... whatever the heck went down ... ... ... the riots are manufactured and the black community is being manipulated by the left ... as usual ... and as it's always been.
Blacks angrier. Whites unimpressed except virtue signaling liberals who feel sorry for rather than respect black people (except when walking their dog in NYC, then the real feelings come out.)
Hopefully Americans toward the middle are catching on - black and white. They seem to be very very very very very slowly catching on when Trump refuses to back down. But even only 2% is a lot these days.
My view is that George went into cardiac distress when they tried to put him in the car and then layed him on the street.
They then called for medical backup as was appropriate.
I'm guessing that the officer had no way of knowing if George was faking and looking for a opportunity to escape or do harm. (He was a 6'6" ex con sent to prison for a violent crime).
Hence the knee on the neck, a restraint technique approved by the MPD.
There really isn't much the officers could have done while awaiting medical.
Did the officer asphyxiate Floyd or diminish blood flow to his brain causing his death?
Not according to the ME summary.
Could they have started CPR before medical arrived and saved him?
Possible but highly unlikely even if they had appropriate training due to the extent of the cardiac and artery disease, but who knows?
BTW, I have worked full time as an EMT for the last decade and I have been certified for the last 40 yrs.
Meanwhile the, the elephant in the room, the wildly disproportionate black on White murder / violence epidemic is completely ignored.
Just in the last few weeks White senior citizens Paul and Lidia Marino, Leslie Baker, Hannah Mackenzie and Betty Thomas have been slaughtered by black males with nary a mention by the msm or the left.
Apparently if you notice such things you're a racist
My view is that George went into cardiac distress when they tried to put him in the car and then layed him on the street.
They then called for medical backup as was appropriate.
I'm guessing that the officer had no way of knowing if George was faking and looking for a opportunity to escape or do harm. (He was a 6'6" ex con sent to prison for a violent crime).
Hence the knee on the neck, a restraint technique approved by the MPD.
There really isn't much the officers could have done while awaiting medical.
Did the officer asphyxiate Floyd or diminish blood flow to his brain causing his death?
Not according to the ME summary.
Could they have started CPR before medical arrived and saved him?
Possible but highly unlikely even if they had appropriate training due to the extent of the cardiac and artery disease, but who knows?
BTW, I have worked full time as an EMT for the last decade and I have been certified for the last 40 yrs.
Meanwhile the, the elephant in the room, the wildly disproportionate black on White murder / violence epidemic is completely ignored.
Just in the last few weeks White senior citizens Paul and Lidia Marino, Leslie Baker, Hannah Mackenzie and Betty Thomas have been slaughtered by black males with nary a mention by the msm or the left.
Apparently if you notice such things you're a racist
“””’I received the vilest insults here on FR for suggesting that we wait until the facts are in before making a judgement. “”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””””
That, plus I got some real nasty freepmails.
I had to check to see if maybe I accidentally was posting on DU or something.
My first thought, too.
Yes, I checked out the profile for one of the “FReepers” who has been very active in the past week, but otherwise hasn’t been an active poster for a decade.
Sounds like a sleeper cell to me.
If you read a profile and it seems like the guy is trying really hard to sound like a devoted Christian and makes a point of hating liberals, you have to wonder if he’s truly authentic.
I put more trust in a regular poster who has zero profile.
Once someone is arrested and CUFFED they are usually put into the squad car and humanly taken to an incarceration center.
I've seen mass murderers caught at the scene of the crime, disarmed, and then treated with kid gloves following their arrest.
Your experience is NOT the experiences of the rest of the world.
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