Posted on 05/22/2020 10:01:06 AM PDT by conservative98
No doubt. But still just the facts. When one is exercising the GA law to arrest, what are the requirements/restrictions to make that stay 'legal'? Can one (or three) detain, or otherwise confine, the suspected criminal? Can they 'brandish' a gun in such a case, or does that create a crime in itself? Its a murky area when you use a gun for more than just self defense, and its hard to deny that these folks didnt inject themselves into the situation. The followers were not victimized. I am not saying they are guilty of murder, so please dont assume I have an opinion on this case yet. I'm just trying to understand the case and the applicable GA laws.
They can write a book after released. $$$$$
seems to me you’ve made up your mind that two redneck white folks hunted down and murdered a black man for sport-
[[that an unarmed man who had committed no crime]]
Two points- they didn’t know he was unarmed- the ex cop personally had arrested this fella for bringing a loaded gun to a school- dropping it on the floor by accident- and running away- they also suspected the fella had stolen a gun from their car-
Second point- Yes he had committed a crime- several times- and was even caught on tape trespassing several times- He had also previously been arrested for committing a crime by carrying the gun into that school- so this fella had a history-
You can blame others of having ‘already made their minds up’ and ridicule them for being faux lawyers- however- you are projecting- and they call the hypocrisy-
“Guilty verdict requires unanimous, and acquittal only takes one.”
You mean like the jury that sat for trial for the murder of Botham Jean?
How long do you think Travis McMichael should have waited before pulling the trigger? Till after that violent piece of sh*t had taken the gun away from him?
What trigger speed would you recommend for someone being attacked by a violent criminal trying to get the gun away from you?
[[When one is exercising the GA law to arrest, what are the requirements/restrictions to make that stay ‘legal’?]]
Soemon posted it awhile back for Georgia- the one doing the arrest just needs to have knowledge that a crime, not a felony like is required in some states,, was committed- trespassing is a crime-
[[Can one (or three) detain, or otherwise confine, the suspected criminal?]]
In a citizen’s arrest I should think certainly they could- that is what an arrest is- detainment
[[I am not saying they are guilty of murder, so please dont assume I have an opinion on this case yet.]]
I don’t- I’ve noticed you’ve been pretty objective- which is good- a lot of folks aren’t- already having made up their minds- it’s ok to have an opinion based o n facts as they emerge- but many folks are ignoring a lot of the facts that have emerged- and one of htose facts is that citizens have a right to engage in citizen’s arrests- even if previous citizen’s arrests may have from time to time ended in tragic accidents happening- many successful arrests have been made by citizens- but those don’t get the coverage that tragic ones get- especially when the msm tries painting it as racist before all the facts are known- what’s worse, the msm covers up evidence that doesn’t fit their narrative- this is totally irresponsible journalism-
So was Michael Flynn and Roger Stone, on equally bullsh*t fake charges.
Aren’t you funny. He attacked them? Horse feathers.
As near as I can tell from looking it up, the verdict was unanimous.
I believe i've read accounts of states attempting to change the "unanimous" verdict requirement for juries, but I also believe i've read about Federal judges shooting down such attempts.
You mean he wasn’t Filming a Documentary?
Yep- i mentioned that in one of my posts- they had every reason to suspect that the fella could have been armed- Soem will claim ‘Well then they shouldn’t have gone after him’ but the law states that citizens do have a right to make citizen’s arrests- that is a law many don’t feel that citizens of a free nation should have- I wholly disagree with them- many many time- police are too far away to help in an emergency situation, and an armed citizen can and should have the tight to make an arrest whether the person committing the crimes is armed or not- regardless of whether the situation might turn deadly or not
Arbery could have prevented his own death by not charging an armed man, and simply waiting for police to show up- He very likely knew the police had been called because he saw a man across the street from the home he criminally trespassed on on the phone- likely yelling to him that he had called the police- that is the most probable reason why the dude took off running at high speed-
We don’t know if the son informed arbery that they had called the police- but I think he might have- but the trial will bring that issue out as they try to determine why arbery charged an armed man-
[[Aren’t you funny.]]
Sometimes- but never in an issue with such a serious subject matter as this-
[[ He attacked them?]]
Yes- the video is very clear about that-
Citizen's Arrests
As a private citizen, you have no authority to arrest anyone with a warrant. Without a warrant, you may arrest anyone who commits a mis-demeanor or a felony in your presence or with your immediate knowledge. A citizen's arrest occurs when a citizen prevents a suspect from leaving a scene. Citizen's arrest most often happens in cases like shoplifting, when the store's manager detains the suspected offender. However, as the following example shows, the manager or employee cannot make such an arrest in every case.
In Winn Dixie Stores Inc. v. Nichols, 205 Ga. App. 308, 422 S.E. 2d 209 (1992), a Winn Dixie customer complained to management that another customer stole her wallet. The court held that the limited rights of merchants to detain or arrest a person reasonably believed to have committed a shoplifting offense do not authorize a merchant to detain or arrest individuals accused by store patrons of committing crimes against other patrons. To make the arrest, an employee would have had to actually see the criminal act committed. Therefore, it was ruled that management had no authority to arrest the alleged criminal.The court suggested that the only person who could have made the citizen's arrest was the robbed customer herself.
When making a citizen's arrest, a person may not use more force than is reasonable to make the arrest. Deadly force is limited to self-defense or to instances in which such force is necessary to prevent certain felonies.
It must be stressed that the right of private citizens to make a citizen's arrest is limited. They cannot arrest people for violating local ordinances or regulations because these violations are not technically crimes as defined by state law.Therefore, as a private citizen, you would not have the authority to arrest a person who is creating a disturbance by making too much noise. In addition, a private person can only make a citizen's arrest for the purpose of bringing the suspect before a judicial officer
I think I'd focus on that Winn Dixie case to see whether these guys had a right to detain the perp. They may have witnessed the crime, but they weren't the ones victimized. This could go either way, unless there is better case law out there.
I think it should be required that everyone who comments on this should have to read the statement Greg McMichael gave to the police. Some of the ignorant comments made about this would hopefully subside.
The relevant portion from the police report.....
On Sunday, February 23, 2020 I responded to the intersection of Satilla Drive and Holmes Drive in reference to shots fired. While in route I was advised there were shots fired and a male on the ground “bleeding out”. A short time later I was advised the male on the ground was deceased.
Upon my arrival I observed Officer Minshew (184) setting up a perimeter.
I began speaking with Greg McMichael who was a witness to the incident. McMichael stated there have been several Break-ins in the neighborhood and further the suspect was caught on surveillance video. McMichael stated he was in his front yard and saw the suspect from the break-ins “hauling ass” down Satilla Drive toward Burford Drive. McMichael stated he then ran inside his house and called to Travis (McMichael) and said, “Travis the guy is running down the street lets go”. McMichael stated he went to his bedroom and grabbed his .357 Magnum and Travis grabbed his shotgun because they “didn’t know if the male was armed or not”. McMichael stated, “the other night” they saw the same male and he stuck his hand down his pants which lead them to believe the male was armed.
McMichael stated he and Travis got in the truck and drove down Satilla Drive toward Burford Drive. McMichael stated when they arrived at the intersection of Satilla Drive and Holmes Drive, they saw the unidentified male running down Burford drive. McMichael then stated Travis drive down Burford and attempted to cut off the male. McMichael stated the unidentified male turned around and began running back the direction from which he came and “Roddy” attempted to block him which was unsuccessful. McMichael stated he then jumped into the bed of the truck and he and Travis continued to Holmes in an attempt to intercept him.
McMichael stated they saw the unidentified male and shouted “stop, stop, we want to talk to you”. stated they pulled up beside the male and shouted stop again at which time Travis exited the truck with the shotgun. McMichael stated the unidentified male began to violently attack Travis and the two men then started fighting over the shotgun at which point Travis fired a shot and then a second later there was a second shot. McMichael stated the male fell face down on the pavement with his hand under his body. McMichael stated he rolled the man over to see if the male had a weapon.
I observed blood rolling the unidentified male over. Photographs were taken of hands and were uploaded to Spillman under property number 20-03176.
************
“Roddy” is Bryan “Roddy” Williams. I have seen the unredacted police report and that is what they had listed.
How many of you have gone to Google Earth and pulled up the neighborhood and address of the participants?
If you read the police reports carefully, then watch the available videos, then compare what you see for yourself to what Greg McMichael told the police, the statement doesn’t match the videos.
By his own admission, McMichael says he attempted to cut off Arbery, and Arbery turned around and ran the other direction. He says that “Roddy” (that is the guy recording the video 3~4 minutes later) also attempted to cut him off but he, too, was unsuccessful.
If you go to Google Earth and carefully watch the video, you can figure out that they are on a different street going a different direction than what McMichael told the police. According to McMichael’s statement, they Arbery was running back up Burford Dr and they got out at the intersection.
In actuality, Arbery was running on Holmes toward that intersection. And the McMichaels were sitting there waiting on him.
There are some serious discrepancies in McMichaels testimony. He said they were hollering “Step, we want to talk to you.” Unfortunately for McMichaels, he was on the phone with 911 when the shooting occurred. He did not say anything to Arbery about stopping. He yelled “STOP! STOP, DAMNIT!” as Arbery ran right by him.
The police in all likelihood have more video from William’s phone and anything else that might have been said.
Notice they’ve gone from he was just jogging to he didn’t take anything.
I don’t think Georgia law requires a person to be personally victimized before making an arrest- There may be exceptions for places of business that the general public doesn’t have on them- i don’t know- Like it said- a customer can hold at gunpoint someone who is thought to have robbed either the store, an employee, or other customer-
All the person has to have is a knowledge that a crime has been committed- I assume this knowledge might even include when soemoen yells out “I’ve been robbed- stop that man’ whether the one doing the arrest knows whether that is true or not- (so obviously this wouldn’t be ‘first hand, as they are taking the other person’s word for it that a crime had been committed)
But i don’t know- Sounds like merchants have more restrictions than citizens have-
In the arbery case- the ex cop did have first hand knowledge that a crime had taken place- tresspassing- he’s apparently seen the videos and was asked to help keep an eye o n the neighboorhood as a result of recent tresspassings caught on camera-
It’ll be a case worth watching- hopefully it doesn’t devolve into unsubstantiated racist opinions like what happened i nthe zimmerman case-
“they had every reason to suspect that the fella could have been armed”
Except they never saw him with a weapon. And he wasn’t armed. That is a tough fact to get around.
Anyone might be armed.
McMichael stated, “the other night” they saw the same male and he stuck his hand down his pants which lead them to believe the male was armed.
That is the ONLY reasoning McMichaels gave. The other night? This was at a different time.
chasing him down and murdering him? I don't think so.
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