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Florida’s “Red Flag” Law Has Led To Massive Gun Confiscation Numbers
Hotair ^
| 02/17/2020
| Jazz Shaw
Posted on 02/17/2020 7:19:50 AM PST by SeekAndFind
Florida enacted its red flag law in the spring of 2018 and they didnt lose any time in putting it to use. And I mean a lot of use. But as this report from the Associated Press indicates, use of the law is not consistent from county to county and there are serious questions remaining as to how fairly its being applied.
The law, supported by legislators of both parties , has been applied more than 3,500 times since, with the pace accelerating during the last half of 2019. Even so, an Associated Press analysis of the law showed its use is inconsistent, with some counties and cities using it rarely and others not at all.
Advocates of Floridas red flag measure say before it existed, it was often difficult to remove firearms from those making threats or suffering severe mental breakdowns. Investigators did not act on reports that the Parkland shooter was threatening to carry out a school massacre. But even if they had, it is likely he would have been allowed to keep his guns because he had no felony convictions or involuntary, long-term mental commitments, they say.
The first thing I would point out here is that the AP article was edited to have a rather disingenuous title. It reads In 2 years, Florida red flag law removes hundreds of guns. While thats technically true, the actual number is more than 3,500, so thousands of guns would have been a more accurate description.
Most of the coverage that Floridas red flag law has received has focused on the most dramatic and probably justifiable cases. They start off talking about someone who posted on Facebook about a desire to go on a shooting spree. There was also a couple who shot up their own apartment while binging on cocaine and another person who pointed a rifle at a motorcyclist. Im not here to argue with those sorts of cases. If you are dumb, stoned or reckless enough to do those sorts of things you probably need to be put in time-out for a little while and have your firearms removed.
But what about the more marginal cases? As the report reveals, there are two counties in the panhandle where authorities have only issued one red flag order for every 100,000 residents. Nine other, mostly rural counties, have issued none at all since the law took effect. But at the other end of the scale, multiple counties have issued one for every 5,500 residents. One other (Highlands County) issued one for every 850 people living there. Thats got to be a significant portion of the guns in the county.
Are we honestly supposed to believe that some of those counties are chock full of crazy people while others have no issues at all? Or could it be that some counties have judges and/or sheriffs that are far more likely to approve gun confiscations than others? The sheriff in the top gun-grabbing county, Paul Blackman, told the AP that he has no idea why his county is number one but noted that his deputies receive frequent calls about mental health crisis situations.
Heres one other hole in the states red flag law that has many people concerned. These red flag hearings are not considered criminal proceedings so you arent entitled to a lawyer assigned by the court. If youre too poor to afford a good attorney, your chances of prevailing at the hearing go way down. With all that in mind, how many of these success stories about gun confiscations were actually brought by people with an ax to grind against their neighbor or angry ex-wives and girlfriends? Once the judge makes the decision to confiscate your weapons, thats pretty much it. Youre allowed to appeal, but again, if you dont have a good lawyer what chance do you have?
Ive been on the fence about these red flag laws since they first started cropping up. In extreme cases like the ones I mentioned at the top, I can definitely see firearms removal as being justifiable. But the system is also open to abuse and there appear to be few safeguards in place for the wrongly accused.
TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Florida
KEYWORDS: banglist; confiscation; florida; guns; redflag
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To: ealgeone
No. Were purple. We won the governorship by less then 1 percent. And the senate seat by less then 1 percent.
21
posted on
02/17/2020 8:03:11 AM PST
by
napscoordinator
(Trump/Hunter, jr for President/Vice President 2016)
To: SeekAndFind
Unconstitutional, but will remain on the books until someone with enough financial backing can take it to the SCOTUS.
The law denies due process, and if for no other reason should be declared unconstitutional................
22
posted on
02/17/2020 8:06:24 AM PST
by
Red Badger
(CWII is coming. It won't be nice like the last one....................)
To: SeekAndFind
Just who determines who’s subject to red flag laws? PSYCHIATRISTS? Show me a shrink and I’ll show you someone with more issues than all the newsstands in Times Sq, Grand Central, JFK, O Hare, LAX and Heathrow combined. Dirty little secret, the reason most people either majoring in psych or in the field are there is to try and figure out why they themselves are so effed up in the head to begin with. A classic case of the blind leading the blind.
23
posted on
02/17/2020 8:08:38 AM PST
by
Impala64ssa
(Virtue signalling is no virtue)
To: SeekAndFind
Floridas Red Flag Law Has Led To Massive Gun Confiscation Numbers
Exactly as it was intended to do. Go figure.
24
posted on
02/17/2020 8:08:51 AM PST
by
Bloody Sam Roberts
(There is not a climate bedwetter who is not a total hypocrite.)
To: circlecity
Those in Florida should keep a few of their guns well hidden or buried in PVC pipe.Reminds me of an old quote:
"When you think it's time to bury your guns, it's actually time to dig them up."
25
posted on
02/17/2020 8:10:51 AM PST
by
Bloody Sam Roberts
(There is not a climate bedwetter who is not a total hypocrite.)
To: HamiltonJay
“I have no doubt that you are going to find individual cases that are questionable, if you dig into them, but as a whole, this isnt looking like any sort of huge evidence that the law is being abused wholesale.”
Without due process, any confiscation is abuse...
I agree that some should not be allowed weapons but w/o that pesky due process, the whole thing is an unconstitutional travesty.
As Rush pointed out some years ago, our whole Justice system is supposed to be predicated on the concept that it’s better to let 100 guilty folks go free than to convict even one innocent person.....and these folks aren’t even being convicted...just accused and “evaluated” (to use the term loosely).
26
posted on
02/17/2020 8:10:55 AM PST
by
trebb
(Don't howl about illegal leeches, or Trump in general, while not donating to FR - it's hypocritical.)
To: SeekAndFind
Before “Red Flag” laws, Prosecutors could and occationaly did request a Judge to require gun confiscation for conviction. That is due process.
As part of civil proceedings, esp where a divorce case was resulting in a restraining order, Judges did issue orders for the guns to be removed and the person with the restraining order was prohibited form possession of a fire arm.
The failure was in the lack of utilization of those due process enforcement options.
I am of the opinion that any law which deprives a citizen of their Constitutional rights, MUST past “strict scruitny”. Red flag laws do not and violate due process. They should be struck down as unconstitutional by SCOTUS. All of them - state or federal.
To: trebb
You can’t have them confiscated without court involvement... Are you claiming that courts are not providing due process?
I hate to break this to you, but you can be involuntary committed temporarily as well... So claiming no due process is a bit of stretch.
When you find systemic abuse, you are going to have an argument to stand on, but given laws like this have existed, that flat out deny people liberty, and have survived constitutional challenges, its hard to see how you are going to win the argument over temporary court based confiscation of a weapon.. that you have the right to contest.
To: Towed_Jumper
29
posted on
02/17/2020 8:21:04 AM PST
by
Howie66
("...Against All Enemies, Foreign and Democrat.....")
To: Howie66
Wayne is busy picking out his next suit to go with his champaign
To: Cold Heart
He is why I am NOT a huge fan of the NRA.
GOA is my preference.
31
posted on
02/17/2020 8:23:01 AM PST
by
Howie66
("...Against All Enemies, Foreign and Democrat.....")
To: SeekAndFind
Nice PSL, gosh I miss mine.
32
posted on
02/17/2020 8:23:47 AM PST
by
mylife
(The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
To: indthkr; G Larry
Not just scrutinize, but acquire details on how the confiscations when down. The who, what, when, where how and why for every case.
If this does not begin to happen, it won’t matter where you buried it, or how bad the boating accident was. I cannot stress the importance of this.
33
posted on
02/17/2020 8:26:39 AM PST
by
jimjohn
(2020: The year the Republicans can and should take back the black vote.)
To: SeekAndFind
This is sort of like the FISA court procedure.
Certainly the red-flag laws are
U N C O N S T I T U T I O N A L .
That is obvious and should be said often.
The legislation was passed in the panicked aftermath of Parkland School shooting. Rick Scott(R) is one heck of a campaigner and he won by a rather thin margin over incumbent Bill Nelson(D). Scott was something of a carpet-bagger and has so much money that he was essentially able to buy the elections which he won (IMO).
To: Skywise
And, if the state loses, full reimbursement to the defendant of ALL costs incurred to defend!!
35
posted on
02/17/2020 8:34:04 AM PST
by
SgtHooper
(If you remember the 60's, YOU WEREN'T THERE!)
To: SeekAndFind
Since Tom Cruise’s “Minority Report” is fiction and none of us really have clairvoyance, there is no way to really determine whether the red flag laws actually work.
But, having been a concealed carry guy for over forty years and supporter of 2A,I also recognize that there are people out there that shouldn’t have firearms. The question becomes, how do you sort them out from the rest of society that should be allow to have firearms? And, how do you keep the people who shouldn’t have firearms, from having them?
We thought it would be a deterrent when we created laws that added mandatory jail time for the possession of a firearm in the act of committing a crime or for a felon to be in possession of a firearm. Now we hear story after story, time after time, where neither of those instances have been enforced. We could go on and on about the “laws on the books” that never amount to anything, so we ask ourselves, “why do we need another law,” especially since what have don’t work or don’t get enforced.
There DOES have to be a solution out there, but there is no way it can be found, unless both sides of this issue can be brutally honest about the facts.
Good, honest,law abiding people, according to the second amendment, have the right to own and bear arms without any infringements. Many non-law abiding people do not. As simple as that.
Good luck sorting them out.
36
posted on
02/17/2020 8:34:18 AM PST
by
MCSETots
To: HamiltonJay
Good points.
............
How many of these cases actually resulted in confiscations?
...........
How many of these cases involved a child custody/divorce dispute?
...........
Cheap shot divorce attorneys must be drooling over these kinds of laws.
To: SeekAndFind
Somewhat playing ‘Devils Advocate’ here but in a true sense,
‘WE’ ASKED FOR AND DEMANDED THIS.
Remember after the Parkland shooting it was revealed that kid was even on the FBI ‘watch’ list as well as local authorities and ‘WE’ demanded something be done.
Well, they went draconian on us and, as that ‘Mooslimb’ said, ‘somebody did something’.
Same as after a shooting ‘WE’ point out that under present laws the guy/gal would have been able to obtain the gun anyway so no sense passing new ones.
I don’t think that is the proper way to address that problem. Just gives ‘them’ more excuse to go after US.
I tell ‘them’ that if taking MY gun away will stop shootings etc would rapes and sexual assault stop if ‘we’ cut off ‘your’ tallywacker?
38
posted on
02/17/2020 8:41:34 AM PST
by
xrmusn
(6/98"HRC is the Grandmother that lures Hansel & Gretel to the pot")
To: gandalftb
Again, I am absolutely sure you may be able to find individual cases that are questionable... there will always be people trying to abuse any law for their benefit.
However, the articles claim that this is some sort of huge numbers of confiscations is flagrantly dishonest.
What is the filing vs granting rate ( how many resulted in confiscations).. Is the court being a rubber stamp, or truly doing its job.
Custody/divorce cases are certainly a ripe place for this sort of abuse.. though they also are a higher incident of violence, whether we want to admit it or not.... PFA’s are a strategy for some, but they are indeed real in others... lest not fool ourselves. Divorce and Custody can be very very bad situations... I know 3 young girls with no parents personally because the father committed a murder suicide during their parents divorce/custody battle.
I am more than willing to condemn the law if some sort of evidence of systemic abuse is found, but this article offers none on its face to suggest there is a systemic abuse of this, and that large numbers of innocent people are being caught up in this law being abused.
To: SeekAndFind
“The law, supported by legislators of both parties”
All you really need to know about our present day “parties”.
40
posted on
02/17/2020 8:52:13 AM PST
by
walkingdead
(By the time you realize this is not worth reading, it will be too late....)
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