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To: mjp; TexasKamaAina; fso301; Redmen4ever; David; trebb; faucetman; icclearly; thirst4truth; ...
Lovely list! There is yet a newer argument which might be called "from proven transcendant causation."

In 1970 atheists Steven Hawking and Roger Penrose published their now-famous space-time theorem, which demonstrated that any universe (1) containing mass (just look at your waistline for proof) and in which general relativity reliably functions (now proven to 15+ decimal places) must have had a beginning, implying a transcendant causal agent, which comports perfectly with the God of the Bible.

50 posted on 01/12/2020 10:53:10 AM PST by Hebrews 11:6 (Do you REALLY believe that (1) God IS, and (2) God IS GOOD?)
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To: Hebrews 11:6

“Lovely list! There is yet a newer argument which might be called “from proven transcendant causation.”
In 1970 atheists Steven Hawking and Roger Penrose published their now-famous space-time theorem, which demonstrated that any universe (1) containing mass (just look at your waistline for proof) and in which general relativity reliably functions (now proven to 15+ decimal places) must have had a beginning, implying a transcendant causal agent, which comports perfectly with the God of the Bible.”

Both are brilliant physicists/cosmologists. And, both were/are committed atheists, as you point out. Although, Penrose does not seem to be a militant atheist. I’m really surprised at Penrose, though. He has done some creative work on conciseness. While he does not outright suggest it as a theorem, he believes that consciousness is related to quantum principals which is but one small leap to it being a field that is pervasive throughout the universe (via quantum theory).

Wonder where that field might come from?

Here is another interesting read from an obscure author and MD who makes a compelling case for justifying a creator from science. http://bit.ly/2seVjdM.

IC Clearly


52 posted on 01/12/2020 3:54:28 PM PST by icclearly
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To: Hebrews 11:6

And the Bible starts with, “In the beginning...”
Didn’t need a Hawking or other “geniuses” to come up with the concept of “before time”, the beginning of it all, eternity that encompasses time, or a Creator that existed even before time....


60 posted on 01/13/2020 2:44:13 AM PST by trebb (Don't howl about illegal leeches, or Trump in general, while not donating to FR - it's hypocritical.)
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To: Hebrews 11:6; LucyT; mjp; TexasKamaAina; fso301; Redmen4ever; trebb; faucetman; icclearly; ...
In 1970 atheists Steven Hawking and Roger Penrose published their now-famous space-time theorem, which demonstrated that any universe . . . . must have had a beginning, implying a transcendant causal agent, which comports perfectly with the God of the Bible.

Better than "comports perfectly"--what is the alternative possible explanation?

Who started the expansion if not God? Where is the Universe located or where was it located when the expansion started? Exactly how does even the scientifically well informed modern man conceptualize the Universe if he excludes God?

64 posted on 01/14/2020 6:24:06 AM PST by David
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