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Posted on 12/13/2019 11:20:41 AM PST by jazusamo
I couldn't agree with you more. If they call witnesses in the trial it'll be a long trial.
If the Senate Republicans turned on Trump, they’d be turning on us, the Republic party would get zero votes next fall.
This nation is doomed without Trump. Sorry, but those are the hard cold facts.
We’ve seen enough of the country club chamber of commerce deep state republiCons. I’m over it.
If it weren’t for Trump, the party would have lost me long ago. It’s a fact I stay in the party only so I can help out in the primaries. Other than that, they’re dead to me.
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Yup. They can read the polls which say Trump has a 95% approval rating with GOP voters. Only the suicidal or incurably petty would vote against him.
Thy are going to do that anyway. They have already said they would. The whole impeachment is a sham. Why even give it the time required for a trial.
According to who, you? We are not governed by reports of what Franklin said. We are governed by the Constitution was written and originally understood and intended.
The plain language of the Constitution is clear and unequivocal.
The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.Art. II, Sec. 4.
Now if Franklin actually said that, to be constitutionally accurate he would have to have meant that "being rude" was a "misdemeanor" ("low crime") already passed in Congress as a misdemeanor.
This is what is more than likely going to happen:
Jaz I suspect Democrats wanted a show trial... wanted to beat up Trump for the cameras - - ‘soften’ him up before the election. I doubt they’ll vote this to the Senate - democrats would be exposed for what they REALLY are if this got to the Senate. They won’t take that risk.
We’ll see - it’s only a guess.
All motions, objections, and requests go to the presiding officer, who is given the power to “rule on all questions of evidence including, but not limited to, questions of relevancy, materiality, and redundancy.” Those rulings can be overturned only if a senator objects and asks for a formal vote by the entire Senate – and no debate is allowed.This could actually work against us. While there is no way the Senate will vote to convict, there might be enough wishy washy moderate Republicans to shoot down the introduction of evidence and witnesses that would damage and embarrass the Dems. For example, we might not have 51 votes to call Biden as a witness, or to introduce evidence that is not narrowly and directly tied to the 2 articles of impeachment. If that is the case, it will be a very short trial.
If McConnell can rein in Collins, Romney and Murkowski, and maintain party unity, it will be a fun ride. There will likely be 4 or 5 House Republicans acting as Impeachment Managers, and I think we saw who the bulldogs were over the past few weeks.
> According to who, you? <
Well, yeah. That’s why I said “I believe that...” in my post.
Anyway, the tricky part is in the phrase “high crimes and misdemeanors”. In the language of the day, that phrase included simple misbehaving. That’s why Founder Benjamin Franklin said what he did: The House could impeach a president just for being rude (obnoxious).
It is also worth noting that impeachment carries no criminal penalties. No one gets fined, and no one goes to jail. It is a purely political process.
You may very well be right in my view.
It would be very convenient for Pelosi if just enough House Rats voted against it to keep it from going to the Senate.
Well impeachment is only formal charge. It then goes to the Senate for conviction.
OK, I guess I’ll have to research the meaning of “misdemeanors” back then. It seems sensible that it would be a “low crime” (which it is now) because it is juxtaposed with “high crimes” in the section.
I’ll check it out, and thank for a reasoned response.
Franklin also commented that if we did not have impeachment, the only way to remove a bad president would be assassination.
> I’ll check it out, and thank for a reasoned response. <
You’re welcome. Our discussion here highlights the problems that can occur when applying 18th century language to the 21st century.
We see this also in discussions of the 2A. The word “militia” in the 2A refers to every adult. In those days, the militia was everyone. But unfortunately that word today has taken on a different meaning.
It also highlights the need for all of us to research and understand OUR Constitution as written and originally understood and intended, relevant in our discussion here.
There's a word for where the country would be sitting if this happens. It's called a "powder keg".
By their actions today on Trump impeachment, Pelosi, Schiff & Nadler have lost the 2020 POTUS election to POTUS, Donald J. Trump and have effectively destroyed the Democrat Party politically...period!!!
The Republicans are going to be solid as a rock - just as they were with Bret Kavanaugh. Even Mitt Romney, who hates the President’s guts, won’t side with the Democrats on this one.
Remember, this is not just about President Trump, this is a dishonest partisan attack, a misuse of the impeachment process, and an attempt by Democrats to disenfranchise the entire Republican Party - including sixty three million voters.
I suspect a fair number of Democrats will be unable to stomach this gross miscarriage of justice, and will side with the Republicans.
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