Posted on 11/12/2019 12:29:09 PM PST by edwinland
The Dishonesty of the Abortion Debate
Why we need to face the best arguments from the other side
(Excerpt) Read more at theatlantic.com ...
As a committed pro-lifer I naturally disagree with the first part, though I agree with the author that the argument she makes probably is about the best argument the pro-abortion side could possibly muster.
Her point is that pro-lifers should be able to face that argument, and I am. Even if the numbers she cites were accurate (and I strongly suspect they are grossly exaggerated) I believe the argument she makes against abortion (that it is undeniably a child's life) would trump those arguments.
I feel like the author was strongly pro-abortion (and that explains why she's so familiar with statistics about illegal abortions prior to Roe v Wade) but a sonogram of a 12 week old baby is changing her mind.
The best quote "And I held on to that comforting piece of information, until it occurred to me to look at one of those images taken at the end of the first trimester. I often wish I hadn’t."
I recommend reading this piece as a good preparation for actually trying to change the mind of someone who is pro-abortion.
When someone has molded their conscience to accept the wanton killing of pre born human life, they can never be trusted in any matter .They are capable of accommodating any moral abomination. It is wise to have only the most superficial relationship with such people and only then when it is absolutely necessary.
Also as an aside to women with children who have had an abortion. It is not wise to share this fact with your surviving children. They will never look at you the same again.
I found out at age 40 after my mother had died that she aborted the elder brother I had longed for all my life.
Life changing news.
C’mon men it’s in your hands. Use it wisely. Don’t allow your seed to go into an idiot/monster. Do not get to the point where a eugenicist’s puppet is slaughtering your son/daughter. Think with your big head. Thanks.
I read only part of the article. Back in the 60’s and earlier, you can kind of understand why a woman would be so desperate to get rid of a baby, there was so much stigma attached to being an unwed mother. Nowadays, there is no such stigma, none. Nobody cares. Quite the opposite, as in some circles, it’s a point of honor to be unmarried and pregnant. There is no excuse in this day and age to get an abortion unless it’s pure selfishness.
A few years ago I heard Ben Shapiro at National Right to Life. He gave, really and truly, without mischaracterization and without condescension, the “best” arguments from the other side.
It was excellent.
Then he proceeded to devastatingly take down each argument with logic, humor, compassion, wit and moral clarity. It was superb.
The point being, we need not fear the best arguments from the other side. We should in fact do more of exactly what Shapiro did. Address them without mischaracterization head on.
People who get, or perform, an abortion, a person who tries to commit suicide, and a murderer believe in the same horrible lie that “Some lives do not matter.”
I’m so incredibly sorry for that loss, on so many levels. I hope the Lord gives you peace and comfort. I’m just so sorry to hear that. I don’t mean that glibly. It’s just that sometimes words don’t really suffice.
Fantastic! ANy chance you could find a video?
Frankly, I have found that it is truly a fools errand to try and convince a pro-abortionist that it’s practice is wrong.
They are pro-abortion predominantly because it makes THEIR life easier, more convenient and with far less responsibility for their actions. They only try and argue it’s overall acceptability to justify that.
What “statistics” could possibly be quoted that would justify the mass murder of the unborn???
To try and convince them otherwise is much like trying to convince an atheist to believe in God and practice Christianity.
A person may have an epiphany on the subject as a handful of ex pro-abortionists have over the years but it must come from within.....It must grow out of a foundational change in their heart and soul either from a spiritual awakening or a life changing external event.
Just a tiny bit of honesty rats should just say murdering innocent human beings is ok
I generally agree but please read through the end of the article to see what changed (or maybe is changing) the author’s mind. It’s not statistics is a very undeniable picture.
A friend of mine from work who is generally liberal but previously didn’t have a strong view on abortion either way once told me he could never imagine anyone being in favor of abortion after seeing the first sonogram of his first child.
A lot of people are willfully, culpably ignorant but a lot are also at least partially victims of willful, culpable ignorance by doctors and others.
If you want to have an influence, donate money to help a pregnancy crisis center buy an ultrasound machine.
Forget the religious notion of a soul, and focus on when the baby is genetically unique and complete. That moment is at conception. Conception is the moment of discontinuity and everything else proceeds from there.
Move backwards from birth and look for the moment at which you can say now there is a person who didn’t exist before and that moment is conception. For years after birth a pattern of growth will continue that is simply a continuation of what was happening before birth. In those month the baby has been growing larger, but expanding on structures that were there before. That heart is told to beat by a nervous system that has been developing from the same set of genetic instructions that directs the formation of the rest of the organs. Those organs grow out of cells that began dividing from a single cell. That single cell began dividing only after the sperm and ova were united. Before the moment they united the ova was just potential and the sperm was one of millions. At the moment they are united the cell is completely changed and the potential is fulfilled.
I know this is long, but bear with me, please. This is the first time I have ever put this to paper, so to speak. The mistake of rationalization I made for many years, and I bitterly regret it due to my distance from this subject, was this:
When confronted with a complicated issue, I like to stake the issue at opposite ends, then find the “cleavage point” in the line stretched between those opposite ends.
That “cleavage point” is where one thing or the other stops being true and becomes false. The string is black at one end point, and white at the other. In the middle are shades of gray.
With abortion, I did not even attempt to bring in the woman’s point of view on whether the baby was wanted, unwanted, expected or unexpected, or even its prospects in life.
I simply looked at one end, totally black, and viewed an ovum. Would it be wrong to destroy an ovum, I thought? I said to myself...no. An ovum isn’t human. It isn’t developed. It doesn’t have any human characteristics. It doesn’t feel pain.
Then I would say to myself (as a Catholic at that time) “How about a fertilized ovum that has split in two? Doesn’t the Catholic Church specify that human life begins at the moment of conception?” Same answer. In my mind, that fertilized ovum that split in two was still not human. it isn’t developed. It doesn’t have any human characteristics. It doesn’t feel pain. How about split into four?
And so on.
And on the other end, I thought “How about a fully formed baby coming down the birth canal seconds away from being outside the mother. Is that baby coming down the birth canal human? Of course it is. It is as human as any of us. To stop it from coming out so you can kill it does not make it any less human because the baby’s head didn’t come out.
How about a week before birth? Is that a human, and is aborting it murder? Same answer.
So, I kept walking it back, and rationalized to myself “There is a gray area somewhere in that development of a fetus when it becomes “human”.
But where?
And usually, that is where it would stop for me. Something else would come up, I would divert my attention somewhere, and I would think that “Yes. I have thought it through...”
But I hadn’t thought it through.
And this realization only came to me during the relatively recent actions by state legislatures which proposed approaches to abortion that...were not abortion. They were talking about allowing a baby to be birthed before killing it. Outright murder. Infanticide. It filled me with shame, horror, and disgust.
And the thing I hadn’t thought through was...the Left.
What I didn’t yet realize is, for the Left, there is no such thing a gray area when it comes to abortion. It is not even black and white for them.
For the Left, it is all black. There is no “white”.
If they advocate allowing a baby to be birthed, but still maintain it may be murdered for some reason or another, then...there is no end to it. No end.
ANY rationalization can be applied to justify the outright murder of a human baby that has been born. The debate would switch from well, is it an ovum or two or has it developed a brain cavity or feels stimulus to...is it a functioning, rational contributor to society?
So, within the last year, I have had to change my views. I have had to accept that human life begins at conception, because if we allow rationalization...we can rationalize ANYTHING.
And that power to debate it and allow rationalization, just like the power to debate and allow rationalization on surveillance of our citizenry, cannot be placed into the hands of people, most especially, elected people. Our moral compass as humans is too prone to evil that is explained away by rationalization.
You explained it in far, far fewer words than I did. I just didn’t know how to explain that painful journey to the truth in fewer words.
Thank you for your kindness.
There are too many who were not given the chance to live. We have lost so much talent, people that would have cherished, so many people are burdened by guilt and the moral distortion caused by their actions, so many innocents have been tortured & killed.
As a Nation I hope we can step back from the brink, embrace the sanctity of life and shoulder our responsibility to cherish the smallest, most fragile among us.
Your essay underscores the debate regarding the use of conscience as the ultimate guide in determining the righteousness of human behavior. In some circles especially in the Church as led by Francis, established doctrine and the behaviors demanded by such doctrines are no longer being emphasized as the core of what dictates behavior. Francis has repeated often that it is conscience that is the basis of moral behavior. Yet history has shown just how easy it is to mold a conscience to accommodate immediate needs or desires. It is always interesting to study in retrospect the behavior of Hitler’s and Stalin’s henchmen who did the actual killing and performed the atrocities. Not only did they mold their conscience to function and do their duties but afterwards few if any publicly repented, committed suicide or sought forgiveness. Instead they seamlessly adapted themselves to the new realities and lost no sleep. This is seen in the behavior of abortionists, feminists, legislators, academics, media types and governors who celebrate and protect abortion even to the point of infanticide.They have molded their conscience and although inherently miserable people, function as part of the hedonistic and decadent Left. Legalized abortion was the first major crack in the reasonable social consensus that once unified Americans. Now there are many others such as open homosexuality with its inherent predatory destruction of children, neo pagan earth worship under the guise of environmentalism,drug and and sexual debasement just to name a few.
You covered a lot in your post there, but it all makes sense and I agree...especially the last three sentences.
I see this as a problem for our country, because our form of governance is not meant for an immoral citizenry.
The planned parenthood trail in san fran should be televised for all Americans to see
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