Posted on 07/28/2019 6:02:04 AM PDT by Kaslin
In an imaginary “ranking” of Christian topics that elicit the most fervent discussions, Jesus Christ is No. 1. But near the top is the Shroud of Turin — believed by millions of Christians to be the authentic burial cloth of Jesus. This “ranking” was inspired by you — Townhall readers who wrote over 500 impassioned comments in response to my July 21 piece, “Shroud of Turin: New Test Concludes 1988 ‘Medieval Hoax’ Dating Was a Fraud.”
I purposely read all your comments to gain insight into my role as an adviser and fundraiser for a groundbreaking exhibition about the Shroud of Turin at the Museum of the Bible in Washington D.C. This spectacular museum, among the largest and highest rated in the city, is located only three blocks from the Capitol. And just prior to the January 20, 2021, presidential inauguration is when this high-tech Shroud exhibit is scheduled to open.
Threaded throughout hundreds of your responses about all aspects of the Shroud was one overarching theme summarized by these three comments:
“Anyone who requires physical evidence to underpin their faith doesn’t understand the concept of faith.”
“JESUS CHRIST died for all. HE is what is important. Making such a fuss about this piece of cloth is a distraction from HIS work of SALVATION.”
“I respectfully submit that the only ‘relic’ which really matters is the one which was left us on that first Easter morning: The tomb is empty! He is Risen! He is Risen indeed! Alleluia!”
Of course, “He is Risen” is also the foundation of my Christian faith, (made slightly more complicated by having been born Jewish). But I feel compelled to discuss and explore the comment that reads in part, “…such a fuss about this piece of cloth...”
And my response is simple: The Shroud of Turin exists because HE exists. An answer that echoes what God said to Moses, “I Am Who I Am. Say this to the people of Israel: I Am has sent me to you” (Exodus 3:14).
Thus, the existence of the Shroud of Turin raises two questions that I will attempt to address: First, what exactly is the Shroud? And second, a deeper dive into “Why does the cloth exist?”
The Shroud of Turin is a 14.5-by-3.5-foot linen cloth with a linear front to back mirror image of a crucified man. The Shroud has the distinction of being the most studied artifact in the world, yet the cloth’s numerous mysteries remained unexplained by modern science.
At this moment the Shroud lies in a fireproof box in the Cathedral of St. John the Baptist in Turin, Italy, as it has continuously since 1578. (But secretly relocated between 1939 and 1946 when Italian authorities feared Hitler was seeking possession.)
Dating the Shroud has been controversial and the subject of my July 21 piece.
Among Shroud historians, there is no dispute that in 1352, over 200 years before the Shroud was housed in Turin, Geoffrey DeCharney displayed the cloth in Lirey, France marking the beginning of the Shroud’s documented "modern" dating.
There is also much circumstantial Shroud evidence through art, artifacts, and coins that pre-dates 1352. Moreover, scientifically verified botanical evidence found on the cloth in the form of pollen, dust, flowers, and even the weave and type of linen traces the Shroud back to first-century Jerusalem.
The cloth with its mysterious properties has survived wars, invasions and the ravages of time including numerous fires — most recently in 1997 at its home cathedral in Turin.
Most harrowing was the 1532 fire in Chambéry, France. Miraculously the entire cloth was not destroyed but left those distinctive linear markings along both sides of the Shroud that we see today. Hard to imagine, but the linen cloth was stored in a silver box, folded in 48 layers, when drops of molten silver burned through the cloth’s outer folded edges.
The point is, against all the odds, the Shroud exists. And, as stated earlier, because He exists. There is also a significant Bible-based reason found in the Gospel of John known as “Doubting Thomas” (John 20:24-31).
But first, a “guest” who will explain this passage needs a proper introduction:
It turns out that the many Townhall readers who commented about not needing the Shroud’s “physical evidence to underpin their faith,” represent a large swath of Christian believers. I learned this when asking Russ Breault— my fellow Shroud exhibit team colleague, and a world-renowned Shroud expert and speaker — if he had experienced similar attitudes after over 30 years of hosting his popular “Shroud Encounters” to sell-out crowds.
Breault replied:
“I get that statement all the time! When someone says, ‘I don't need the Shroud for my faith,’ I usually say, ‘That is fantastic! But that doesn't mean the Shroud was not meant for someone else.’ ”
Breault continued: “In the Doubting Thomas story, Jesus pronounced a blessing on those who ‘believe yet have not seen,’ but Jesus did not condemn Thomas for his unbelief. In fact, a week after the Resurrection, Jesus appeared a second time, and the first person he spoke to was Thomas, who was not there to witness Jesus’ first appearance. Jesus then quotes Thomas' words back to him, ‘Thomas, thrust your hand into my side and place your fingers into my nail wounds and be not faithless but believe.’
At this point, Thomas — forever known as "Doubting Thomas" — makes the strongest profession of faith in the New Testament saying, "My Lord and my God." Then Jesus pronounced a blessing on those who can believe without seeing. So we are blessed if we can believe without seeing, but we are not cursed if we can't get there without some additional evidence.
Therefore, perhaps the Shroud is a silent witness to the world offering all of humanity the same opportunity Jesus gave to Thomas. In some proverbial sense by looking at the Shroud, we too can thrust our hand into His side and place our fingers into His nail wound and find our faith in the process.”
Thank you, Russ! And now my final thoughts for Townhall commenters.
If blessed with great faith, you are free to ignore or downplay the image on the Shroud showing Christ’s great suffering and victory over death. Yet, take comfort in knowing that the Shroud is there to supplement or reinforce the faith of others while potentially witnessing to the ever-increasing number of Doubting Thomases found throughout the world.
In the end, I believe that the Shroud exists as proof of God’s greatest gift to mankind —the Lord Jesus Christ — who lives and reigns forever and ever. Alleluia!
(Now, let the comments begin!)
Because you’re a troll...?
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I have been nothing but polite to you for the last several days.
Shame on you.
Seriously, did you just get too wound up in that last comment and *forget*?
Scripture commands us to pray for one another, as well as enjoins us to ask for prayers from others.
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Always talking about and to people who have not fallen asleep—or died, in common parlance.
Why aren’t your brothers in Christ who you personally know not enough?
Going to bed now.
You offered, “Satan also hates the Church and wants to sow strife and discord.” Would that be the Catholic Org Church, or the sum of ALL believers throughout Hisotry. I doubt satan hates the Catholic Church the way you seem to believe. He hates all humanity that’s why he is working to keep you from being Born from Above in this life. he also hates the Ekklesia (The True Church of The Messiah). So when you use ‘Church’ to which are you referring? Or is it both but you want to make the impression that Church is The Roman Catholic Org.
I repeat, I have been nothing but polite to you. Emphasizing part of a question that it looked like you ignored is not an attack on you. And on top of that telling you to stop using a strawman is not ‘going berzerk.’
Your ad hominem attacks on me are shameful for someone who claims to be part of the Body of Christ.
Try this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_water I don’t think the devil hates holy water. I think he started it.
I am the happiest guy on earth, for being a REBELLIOUS catholic. It certainly DID contribute to me dumping the Catholic Church. Praise God for that. I was able to convince one of the girls I flirted with, to leave the Catholic Church too. She still thanks me for it.
You are talking to a military guy bro. I know who Halsey was. His name was William, not bull. I don’t think anyone called him bull, to his face. I am reasonably sure I have spent a WHOLE BUNCH more time in Tacloban than you have. I was a USAF non commissioned officer. My son is a USAF commissioned officer.
Have a nice eternity bro. I hope you make it, but if you don’t, well that’s on you. By the way, let me also say that I don’t agree with hardly any of your YOPIOS.
And I figure, the Saints are already up in Heaven anyway.
"He is not the God of the dead, but of the living."
And, being Saints, their will is more attuned to the will of God. "We know if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us."
Speaking of falling asleep, it's way past my bedtime.
Nighty night.
I think the Bull Halsey was something I picked up from the Time-Life books on World War 2, which I read when I was a young puppy. I haven’t seen them in decades.
And, being Saints, their will is more attuned to the will of God. “We know if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.”
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The Holy Spirit is better. And the Holy Spirit praying for us on our behalf is actually written by the Apostles.
You don’t *need* saints to do it for you; the Lord provides everything on his own.
Again, why not ask your living brothers, and then go to God directly?
Trying to communicate with the dead to get them to do things for you has been referred to as an abomination in Scripture. Even trying to get advice from, say, a prophet of the Lord.
Sleep well.
Welp.
I come into this thread intending to be calm and collected. And I am.
So much for “a gentle tongue turneth away wroth” on this thread.
LOL
I believe the Catholic Church is a false religion, and has been Satan’s greatest success story. The Catholic Church, however, is not the only one. Islam is in there somewhere. Some of the other Satanic success stories, are the the Mormons, JWs, Christian Science, and the Church of Manalo and the church of Quiboloy. These are obviously not as well known, since I never heard of them, till I got to Leyte, but both are cults, with a capital C. With some of these cults, I think they go back to the worship of Nimrod, Semiramis and Tammuz, the UNholy trinity. 😁👍
There is no doubt Halsey was called Bull. My point is, that he hated it, and I doubt anyone called him bull, to his face.
More than Halsey, however, the greatest American hero, in the Philippines, is Douglas MacArthur. Every Filipino on earth, knows who said, “people of the Philippines, I shall return.”
I have been to Palo, where he DID return. I have seen the monuments, up close and personal. I was right in the middle of history. I was a bit overwhelmed by it all, since my uncle, for who I am named, died on the Bataan death march. That was gut wrenching moment number one, even though it all happened long before I was born. I have never been to Camp O’donnell myself, but my catholic friend 😁 whose wife is from Tarlac, has. They went to the Battling Bastards of Bataan Memorial, at Camp O’donnell, Capas, Tarlac. The worst gut wrench of all, came, when he was able to find my uncle’s name, and photograph it. It was tough to take.
Then I knew a couple of guys, that I played little league baseball with, who were killed in Vietnam. It’s not been easy, but I survived.
I first read an English version of Barbet's "A Doctor At Calvary" in 1974, so the issue is not novel or strange to me. That was just after my doctoral degree was freshly minted, which was preceded by the BSEng having been granted and employed 10 years before.
What I have found in life is the truism that the inspired and adequately translated Written Word of God alone is fully sufficient both for the generating of The Faith in the heart of the compliant human, his/her new birth in The Spirit, and its implementation, unaided by such dubious creations as the relic in question; which the Holy Ghost, the source of Scripture, has deemed not only unnecessary for His operation, but unwanted, like much of the arrogant, errant, and uninspired offerings of the ill-formed Roman Catholic chatechistic teachings from the limited minds of fallible carnal humans.
It is on the first principles of obeying the sense of the Third Commandment that I reject this visible image purported to be that of The God-Man in the rekindling of His tripartite unity of soul, spirit, and body which appeared in His spiritual eternal incarnation of flesh and bone (without blood), inasmuch as the Holy Spirit has seen fit to exclude any kind of visible re-creation of what the Messiah's visage was during or subsequent to His earthly mission of fulfilling all righteousness.
Furthermore, based on the regulation of Leviticus 16:14-29, the teaching of Hebrews 9:22-24, and the valuation of His Blood mentioned by Simon bar Jona in 1 Peter 1:18-20, I do recognize that Our Risen Messiah gathered up all His existent incorruptible shed blood, now separate from the Risen Body, and in His ascension transported it to the innermost Holy Place of Heaven for the purpose of the one-time-forever application of it by Him (as our Eternal High Priest) to the True Heavenly Mercy Seat, the price of the sin of the world in complete satisfaction of The Most High's righteous demands, thus assuaging The Mighty God's Fiery Ire, and by this propitiatory act obtaining the transaction by which The Holy Father acknowledged His Beloved Son's atonement for the sins of man such that He could unilaterally offer justification, amity, new spiritual birth, and adoption as sons and daughters into His Everlasting Never-dying Family of blameless and faultless Children of The God, co-heirs with Christ of His Benificence, saved to Eternal Life once and for all time from the Second Death.
Thus, I reject that if the stains on this "shroud" of indeterminate origin are found to be that of corrupted, destructible human blood, the residue cannot be of the Incorruptible Shed Blood of the Slain Lamb of God, the Whole Presence of which is now present and glistening source of life, continually seen by The Mighty God as the the eternally incorruptible coin of the realm backing His Currency of Fatherly Love and Care for His faithfully obedient children as well as wise government of the restored Creation.
To me, the "Shroud of Turin" is an enigma, its existence unsupported--even forbidden--by Scripture, and therefore a misleading fakery, discerned spiritually and not by the tools of the congregation of soulish intellect-limited foolish human "experts," a totem to be discarded as useless in augmenting the True Written Record of our Lord's Passion by first-person eye-witnesses of His death and interment.
This "shroud" is not a work of pious Art as you inticate; it is a manifestation of superstitious ignorance of God's Ways of communicating--or not, if He so desires. My personal yearing is to see Him as he really is (1 John 3:2 AV):
"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is."
The two on the road to Emmaus did. The woman from Magdala did. Thomas Didymus did, but did his twin brother? Over five hundred humans did, before His final ascension. In the time yet to come, will you?
Awesome story about your family.
Thank you for your service, and that young fella of yours!
Problem is, those folks who are in Heaven, and btw....just how does a Roman Catholic know they're in Heaven as ya'll constantly tell us no one really knows their eternal destiny until they die, cannot hear you.
And, being Saints, their will is more attuned to the will of God. "We know if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us."
Yes....notice the key point there....HE hears us. Not the saints....but HE.
Notice also the believer is praying TO God....not Mary. Not the saints.
Basic bible study 101.
Have you ever read Romans 8:26-27? We do have the Holy Spirit in us. At all times.
Roman Catholicism seems to somehow think that a physical location may be the difference in how your prayer is received. Those physically closer to God are somehow more "in tune" than those of us who are still here on earth.
We can approach the Throne of Grace with confidence. We don't have to go through Mary as asserted by some Roman Catholic writers or the "saints".
We can, and are instructed, to go straight to God.
It's an awesome privilege.
Dude...if this thread bothers you so much just walk away.
This really seems to be the only thing you bring to the conversation.
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