Posted on 07/28/2019 6:02:04 AM PDT by Kaslin
In an imaginary “ranking” of Christian topics that elicit the most fervent discussions, Jesus Christ is No. 1. But near the top is the Shroud of Turin — believed by millions of Christians to be the authentic burial cloth of Jesus. This “ranking” was inspired by you — Townhall readers who wrote over 500 impassioned comments in response to my July 21 piece, “Shroud of Turin: New Test Concludes 1988 ‘Medieval Hoax’ Dating Was a Fraud.”
I purposely read all your comments to gain insight into my role as an adviser and fundraiser for a groundbreaking exhibition about the Shroud of Turin at the Museum of the Bible in Washington D.C. This spectacular museum, among the largest and highest rated in the city, is located only three blocks from the Capitol. And just prior to the January 20, 2021, presidential inauguration is when this high-tech Shroud exhibit is scheduled to open.
Threaded throughout hundreds of your responses about all aspects of the Shroud was one overarching theme summarized by these three comments:
“Anyone who requires physical evidence to underpin their faith doesn’t understand the concept of faith.”
“JESUS CHRIST died for all. HE is what is important. Making such a fuss about this piece of cloth is a distraction from HIS work of SALVATION.”
“I respectfully submit that the only ‘relic’ which really matters is the one which was left us on that first Easter morning: The tomb is empty! He is Risen! He is Risen indeed! Alleluia!”
Of course, “He is Risen” is also the foundation of my Christian faith, (made slightly more complicated by having been born Jewish). But I feel compelled to discuss and explore the comment that reads in part, “…such a fuss about this piece of cloth...”
And my response is simple: The Shroud of Turin exists because HE exists. An answer that echoes what God said to Moses, “I Am Who I Am. Say this to the people of Israel: I Am has sent me to you” (Exodus 3:14).
Thus, the existence of the Shroud of Turin raises two questions that I will attempt to address: First, what exactly is the Shroud? And second, a deeper dive into “Why does the cloth exist?”
The Shroud of Turin is a 14.5-by-3.5-foot linen cloth with a linear front to back mirror image of a crucified man. The Shroud has the distinction of being the most studied artifact in the world, yet the cloth’s numerous mysteries remained unexplained by modern science.
At this moment the Shroud lies in a fireproof box in the Cathedral of St. John the Baptist in Turin, Italy, as it has continuously since 1578. (But secretly relocated between 1939 and 1946 when Italian authorities feared Hitler was seeking possession.)
Dating the Shroud has been controversial and the subject of my July 21 piece.
Among Shroud historians, there is no dispute that in 1352, over 200 years before the Shroud was housed in Turin, Geoffrey DeCharney displayed the cloth in Lirey, France marking the beginning of the Shroud’s documented "modern" dating.
There is also much circumstantial Shroud evidence through art, artifacts, and coins that pre-dates 1352. Moreover, scientifically verified botanical evidence found on the cloth in the form of pollen, dust, flowers, and even the weave and type of linen traces the Shroud back to first-century Jerusalem.
The cloth with its mysterious properties has survived wars, invasions and the ravages of time including numerous fires — most recently in 1997 at its home cathedral in Turin.
Most harrowing was the 1532 fire in Chambéry, France. Miraculously the entire cloth was not destroyed but left those distinctive linear markings along both sides of the Shroud that we see today. Hard to imagine, but the linen cloth was stored in a silver box, folded in 48 layers, when drops of molten silver burned through the cloth’s outer folded edges.
The point is, against all the odds, the Shroud exists. And, as stated earlier, because He exists. There is also a significant Bible-based reason found in the Gospel of John known as “Doubting Thomas” (John 20:24-31).
But first, a “guest” who will explain this passage needs a proper introduction:
It turns out that the many Townhall readers who commented about not needing the Shroud’s “physical evidence to underpin their faith,” represent a large swath of Christian believers. I learned this when asking Russ Breault— my fellow Shroud exhibit team colleague, and a world-renowned Shroud expert and speaker — if he had experienced similar attitudes after over 30 years of hosting his popular “Shroud Encounters” to sell-out crowds.
Breault replied:
“I get that statement all the time! When someone says, ‘I don't need the Shroud for my faith,’ I usually say, ‘That is fantastic! But that doesn't mean the Shroud was not meant for someone else.’ ”
Breault continued: “In the Doubting Thomas story, Jesus pronounced a blessing on those who ‘believe yet have not seen,’ but Jesus did not condemn Thomas for his unbelief. In fact, a week after the Resurrection, Jesus appeared a second time, and the first person he spoke to was Thomas, who was not there to witness Jesus’ first appearance. Jesus then quotes Thomas' words back to him, ‘Thomas, thrust your hand into my side and place your fingers into my nail wounds and be not faithless but believe.’
At this point, Thomas — forever known as "Doubting Thomas" — makes the strongest profession of faith in the New Testament saying, "My Lord and my God." Then Jesus pronounced a blessing on those who can believe without seeing. So we are blessed if we can believe without seeing, but we are not cursed if we can't get there without some additional evidence.
Therefore, perhaps the Shroud is a silent witness to the world offering all of humanity the same opportunity Jesus gave to Thomas. In some proverbial sense by looking at the Shroud, we too can thrust our hand into His side and place our fingers into His nail wound and find our faith in the process.”
Thank you, Russ! And now my final thoughts for Townhall commenters.
If blessed with great faith, you are free to ignore or downplay the image on the Shroud showing Christ’s great suffering and victory over death. Yet, take comfort in knowing that the Shroud is there to supplement or reinforce the faith of others while potentially witnessing to the ever-increasing number of Doubting Thomases found throughout the world.
In the end, I believe that the Shroud exists as proof of God’s greatest gift to mankind —the Lord Jesus Christ — who lives and reigns forever and ever. Alleluia!
(Now, let the comments begin!)
So, if they will not suffer eternal fire, what sort of fire WILL they suffer? 😁
That's not *necessarily* true...
Because God can send apparitions, and visions, and angels to aid in Salvation.
Even, you know, like Daniel praying before God, when the angel sent was resisted by the Prince of Persia, until the Archangel Michael came along to help.
Or in the Lion's Den. "God sent his Angel to close the mouths of the lions..."
Or Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego (sp? on all three) in the fiery furnace ("I see four men, and one of the looks like a Son of the Gods.")
Or, you know, Gabriel talking to...Mary.
Or the vision sent to Peter where God Himself commanded Peter to kill and eat unclean flesh ("what God has cleansed, you must not call common.") And that vision was for the sake of the salvation of a Gentile.
Or the vision of the man who appeared to St.Paul, come over here and help us.
God can and does send intermediaries.
What does John say? "Beloved, believe not every spirit...every spirit which confesses which Jesus has come in the flesh is of God."
And it takes some nerve to come out and say that Jesus' own Mother would deny that He has come in the flesh.
You spittled out, “What you’re saying there is this: An unbelieving person will “know that the claims of Christ are true” merely by seeing a “changed life” in someone else.” No, vlad what she is saying is the behavior changes CAN BE instructive for the non-believer regarding the claims of Christ, but the non-believer determines whether they will allow the example to be taken to heart, their heart. The way you phrase your little gotcha is indicative of your twisted CATHOLIC mindset.
All the evidence does not guarantee someone else’s conversion.
The pharisees had far more evidence of the claims of Christ because they talked with Him face to face and they still went and crucified Him.
My statements are true and where you get the idea that it guarantees someone else’s conversion only you know.
Here on earth, a place of time and change, Scripture tells us there is the danger of changing back and forth multiple times, as unstable people do.
As we read in James 1:4-8
"Let perseverance finish its work
(That is an imperative verb, "Let," which means we can choose to persevere, or not)so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything.If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God,
(Another imperative verb, "Ask." You "should" ask. Your choice. Nobody's going to make you ask)Who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you.But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt,
(More imperatives, "believe","don't doubt")because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do."
If we were in a changeless state (not in the limits of the physical Universe) we would get one choice, AS THE ANGELS DID. They got ONE. Their choice, whether for good or for evil, was irrevocable. One and done.
Unlike the angels, we are compound beings, embodied spirits or, if you like, enspirited bodies, living by God's good provision in this time-and-space matrix were change happens constantly. Not only do changes happen around us, but we ourselves are agents: we can -- to some extent ---change ourselves. We can change our minds.
And I'm sorry to say, as life goes on in this time-and-space matrix, Jesus says your faith is NOT necessarily a settled thing, and it's in danger of getting even more unstable.
Matthew 24:10
At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other.
So, don't turn away from the Faith, Rather, turn away from sin. That means repent, and "repent" is an imperative verb. "Repent and believe." Two imperative verbs.
In time. Every time. Ask, and you shall receive. Now is the acceptable time.
Try rephrasing your assertion with can know instead of will know. we can offer to you the Grace of God in Christ. But we cannot make you see that Grace.
Look! Jesus and Mary have got you hemmed in! :-D
Ya might wanna double check with the New Testament again on that one.
4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6and then have fallen awayto be restored again to repentance, because they themselves are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting Him to open shame.
Can you find that passage? It's not something one of the popes wrote!
I thought Confucius said, a man with two clocks couldnt care less what time it is. 😁
You’re also going to have to address the other verses and arguments instead of just choosing one verse that says something different. Otherwise your claim is that Scripture is self-contradictory (and so is Catholicism for keeping it in their canon).
And I say this as someone who believes that it’s possible— albeit very unlikely and impossible to do accidentally—to have and then reject salvation.
I suspect that the later promise of the Church, extending the promise to *everyone* who wears the scapula, might be a case of getting overenthusiastic.
But even that doesn't mean it is a lie: premeditated, knowing falsehood.
I can give you a good example, if you have any kids.
Have you ever told one of your kids to go and get one of your other children from across the house, or out in the yard?
And you see the look on their face; and you hear them as they tell their sibling, "You'd *better* get in the house RIGHT NOW. *Dad* wants to _see_ _you_."
Did they obey you by going and getting their brother or sister? Well, they went out and called them.
Did they put their own spin into it? (Whether jealous since they thought their sibling was getting a treat, and not them, or mischevious, believing that their sibling was going to get in trouble)?
Were they *lying*...?
There's a whole gamut from honest mistakes to mistakes on purpose to telling yourself something until you believe it to openly fabricating.
(HInt: even St. Paul credits the Jews for having a zeal for God, but not according to Christ. And then turns around and says he wishes he were cut off, for their sake. Gloating over their error, not so much.)
Apparitions are not visions, nor are they angels.
God gives dreams and visions to people.
God sends out angels on assignment. They are real beings, not *apparitions*.
Andy apparition of anything is demonic, n matter who is claims to be.
And you can tell by what it says, like when some demon calling itself Mary comes along and promises something that it totally unscriptural, like wearing something keeps you from hell.
That is a lie, and it's source is demonic and the apparition is a demon.
Here.
John 5:24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
John 6:37-39 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
John 10:25-30 Jesus answered them, I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father's name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.
Romans 4:16 Therefore, the promise comes by faith, so that it may be by grace and may be guaranteed to all Abraham's offspring-not only to those who are of the law but also to those who have the faith of Abraham. He is the father of us all.
1 Corinthians 1:4-8 I give thanks to my God always for you because of the grace of God that was given you in Christ Jesus,that in every way you were enriched in him in all speech and all knowledgeeven as the testimony about Christ was confirmed among youso that you are not lacking in any gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2 Corinthians 1:21-22 And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
2 Corinthians 5:4-8 For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdenednot that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight. Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.
Ephesians 1:13-14 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
Ephesians 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
Philippians 1:6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.
Colossians 1:13-14 He has delivered us from the domain of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of his beloved Son, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
Colossians 2:13-14 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.
Colossians 3:3 For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.
1 Peter 1:3-5 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Hebrews 6:17-20 So when God desired to show more convincingly to the heirs of the promise the unchangeable character of his purpose, he guaranteed it with an oath, so that by two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled for refuge might have strong encouragement to hold fast to the hope set before us. We have this as a sure and steadfast anchor of the soul, a hope that enters into the inner place behind the curtain, where Jesus has gone as a forerunner on our behalf, having become a high priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.
Jude v24 "Now unto Him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy"
1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/3156607/posts?page=313#313
2 Corinthians 1:21-22 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.
For which the Greek, from the Byzantine, is:
2Corinthians 1:21-22 ο δε βεβαιων ημας συν υμιν εις χριστον και χρισας ημας θεος ο και σφραγισαμενος ημας και δους τον αρραβωνα του πνευματος εν ταις καρδιαις ημων
The first word in bold above is bebaion, the idea of confirmation, frequently used in commercial settings to confirm a bargain. Which of course makes sense of the remaining terms used here, which are also elements of a secured contract.
The second word in bold above is sphragisamenos, being sealed is to be marked by the signature, signet ring, or other unique proof of identity, that we belong to God, and this sealing is done by God, who is the one taking action in this verse. We do not and cannot seal ourselves. We do not, by our own powers, have access to Gods signet ring.
The third bolded word above is arrabona, and indicates what we might loosely refer to as earnest money, but in Hebrew culture conveys more the idea of a pledge of covenant, a security given as a guarantee that the deal will go through, though we only receive part payment at the beginning. See ערב for the related Hebrew stem indicating pledge.
Careful with that, ok?
Jesus said to them, "Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you."
John 6:53. Jesus Himself speaking.
And in that connection, St. Paul himself:
29For anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body eats and drinks judgment on himself. 30That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. -- 1 Cor 11:29-30.
I don't. I ask them to pray FOR me. (*They're already next to the Throne.*)
"In Your Infinite Love You made us for Yourself."
Presuming that Paul wrote the letter to the Hebrews, he was making the argument that JEWS who are introduced to the Grace of God in Christ and give the life a try do so in repentance, but not necessarily taking The Born Again experience and being Born from Above.
Not a bit. Cause it proves that I'm not repeating by rote what some priest or bishop told me to believe.
My trust in it, is based on the reading of the autobiographies of several saints, and images and prayers which they were granted by the Holy Spirit.
Why do you need the saints to pray FOR you?
You already have a direct line to the Father; ask him yourself. If he’s truly loving like you believe, why do you need to get someone else to do it instead?
Sounds suspiciously like "electricity" from playing tag as kids...
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