Posted on 07/28/2019 6:02:04 AM PDT by Kaslin
In an imaginary “ranking” of Christian topics that elicit the most fervent discussions, Jesus Christ is No. 1. But near the top is the Shroud of Turin — believed by millions of Christians to be the authentic burial cloth of Jesus. This “ranking” was inspired by you — Townhall readers who wrote over 500 impassioned comments in response to my July 21 piece, “Shroud of Turin: New Test Concludes 1988 ‘Medieval Hoax’ Dating Was a Fraud.”
I purposely read all your comments to gain insight into my role as an adviser and fundraiser for a groundbreaking exhibition about the Shroud of Turin at the Museum of the Bible in Washington D.C. This spectacular museum, among the largest and highest rated in the city, is located only three blocks from the Capitol. And just prior to the January 20, 2021, presidential inauguration is when this high-tech Shroud exhibit is scheduled to open.
Threaded throughout hundreds of your responses about all aspects of the Shroud was one overarching theme summarized by these three comments:
“Anyone who requires physical evidence to underpin their faith doesn’t understand the concept of faith.”
“JESUS CHRIST died for all. HE is what is important. Making such a fuss about this piece of cloth is a distraction from HIS work of SALVATION.”
“I respectfully submit that the only ‘relic’ which really matters is the one which was left us on that first Easter morning: The tomb is empty! He is Risen! He is Risen indeed! Alleluia!”
Of course, “He is Risen” is also the foundation of my Christian faith, (made slightly more complicated by having been born Jewish). But I feel compelled to discuss and explore the comment that reads in part, “…such a fuss about this piece of cloth...”
And my response is simple: The Shroud of Turin exists because HE exists. An answer that echoes what God said to Moses, “I Am Who I Am. Say this to the people of Israel: I Am has sent me to you” (Exodus 3:14).
Thus, the existence of the Shroud of Turin raises two questions that I will attempt to address: First, what exactly is the Shroud? And second, a deeper dive into “Why does the cloth exist?”
The Shroud of Turin is a 14.5-by-3.5-foot linen cloth with a linear front to back mirror image of a crucified man. The Shroud has the distinction of being the most studied artifact in the world, yet the cloth’s numerous mysteries remained unexplained by modern science.
At this moment the Shroud lies in a fireproof box in the Cathedral of St. John the Baptist in Turin, Italy, as it has continuously since 1578. (But secretly relocated between 1939 and 1946 when Italian authorities feared Hitler was seeking possession.)
Dating the Shroud has been controversial and the subject of my July 21 piece.
Among Shroud historians, there is no dispute that in 1352, over 200 years before the Shroud was housed in Turin, Geoffrey DeCharney displayed the cloth in Lirey, France marking the beginning of the Shroud’s documented "modern" dating.
There is also much circumstantial Shroud evidence through art, artifacts, and coins that pre-dates 1352. Moreover, scientifically verified botanical evidence found on the cloth in the form of pollen, dust, flowers, and even the weave and type of linen traces the Shroud back to first-century Jerusalem.
The cloth with its mysterious properties has survived wars, invasions and the ravages of time including numerous fires — most recently in 1997 at its home cathedral in Turin.
Most harrowing was the 1532 fire in Chambéry, France. Miraculously the entire cloth was not destroyed but left those distinctive linear markings along both sides of the Shroud that we see today. Hard to imagine, but the linen cloth was stored in a silver box, folded in 48 layers, when drops of molten silver burned through the cloth’s outer folded edges.
The point is, against all the odds, the Shroud exists. And, as stated earlier, because He exists. There is also a significant Bible-based reason found in the Gospel of John known as “Doubting Thomas” (John 20:24-31).
But first, a “guest” who will explain this passage needs a proper introduction:
It turns out that the many Townhall readers who commented about not needing the Shroud’s “physical evidence to underpin their faith,” represent a large swath of Christian believers. I learned this when asking Russ Breault— my fellow Shroud exhibit team colleague, and a world-renowned Shroud expert and speaker — if he had experienced similar attitudes after over 30 years of hosting his popular “Shroud Encounters” to sell-out crowds.
Breault replied:
“I get that statement all the time! When someone says, ‘I don't need the Shroud for my faith,’ I usually say, ‘That is fantastic! But that doesn't mean the Shroud was not meant for someone else.’ ”
Breault continued: “In the Doubting Thomas story, Jesus pronounced a blessing on those who ‘believe yet have not seen,’ but Jesus did not condemn Thomas for his unbelief. In fact, a week after the Resurrection, Jesus appeared a second time, and the first person he spoke to was Thomas, who was not there to witness Jesus’ first appearance. Jesus then quotes Thomas' words back to him, ‘Thomas, thrust your hand into my side and place your fingers into my nail wounds and be not faithless but believe.’
At this point, Thomas — forever known as "Doubting Thomas" — makes the strongest profession of faith in the New Testament saying, "My Lord and my God." Then Jesus pronounced a blessing on those who can believe without seeing. So we are blessed if we can believe without seeing, but we are not cursed if we can't get there without some additional evidence.
Therefore, perhaps the Shroud is a silent witness to the world offering all of humanity the same opportunity Jesus gave to Thomas. In some proverbial sense by looking at the Shroud, we too can thrust our hand into His side and place our fingers into His nail wound and find our faith in the process.”
Thank you, Russ! And now my final thoughts for Townhall commenters.
If blessed with great faith, you are free to ignore or downplay the image on the Shroud showing Christ’s great suffering and victory over death. Yet, take comfort in knowing that the Shroud is there to supplement or reinforce the faith of others while potentially witnessing to the ever-increasing number of Doubting Thomases found throughout the world.
In the end, I believe that the Shroud exists as proof of God’s greatest gift to mankind —the Lord Jesus Christ — who lives and reigns forever and ever. Alleluia!
(Now, let the comments begin!)
Mary idolatry is so inveigled in Catholicism of today that no Truth can remove it. Even photographs take at the Fatima event showing a UFO in the sky and matched by eyewitness testimonies which affirm a 'silver disc' int he sky that buzzed the crowd leaving physical effects cannot dislodge the apparitional lies swallowed by Catholic adherents.
Since you just confirmed that Jesus IS a sign--- and then you added, "We Gentiles do not require a sign," you seem to be saying that Gentiles do not need Christ Incarnate.
come on mrs.d…..you can do much better than this.
I’m willing to bet that, in most of the cases you quoted, the author also said something to the effect that “Honor our Mother Mary because she always leads us to Jesus”. Those you quoted are only doing what was foretold in Holy Scripture, “For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed”. (Luke 1:48). These quotes are obviously chosen to make a point. Please look behind the veil of whatever website provided these quotes and learn about True devotion to Mary.
Pax et bonum
Peewee knows what you're not; but what ARE you?
RCC members come in all flavors these days; unity is NOT a strong point (as anyone can CLEARLY see on FR)
So THAT's why I get nothing done around the house these days!
There are few birds on these threads that are NOT tough and old.
I think the last time I was 'offended' was back in '07.
I may have offended others since then; but there is always someone's ox gonna get gored by the OFFENSE of the Gospel.
It's been probably a week or so since the mod has had to come to the playground and advise someone to grow a thicker skin or perhaps find a different school yard in which to play.
True Semiramis devotion is not righteousness, so this ‘devotion to Mary’ is yet another trail satan has laid out for Catholics, to lead them away from Jesus/God having been manipulated to believe they are being faithful to God by diverting their requests to Mary or any ‘saint’ who has died and presumed to be in Heaven. Many probably are with The Lord and certainly Mary the Mother of Jesus, but No Where in The Word of God are the Body of Christ told to pray to dead folks regardless of where they are.
(Some may not be familiar with that Scripture...)
Ephesians 4:29 English Standard Version (ESV)
Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.
HMMMmmm…
Just WHO is going to be giving this 'grace'?
Just as a little poison in the cake renders the cake dangerous and deadly to eat so does just a little false doctrine in the life of the believer is dangerous and leads to death.
It means both Proverbs 26:4,5 are applicable, with "according to his" not being in the Hebrew (it just says "folly") yet as provided, it is likely a warning in one sense, of arguing like a fool, dealing with foolish objections, and the other being advice in another sense, of condescending to refute such foolish objections "lest he be wise in his own conceit."
As the classic practical commentator )oh, wait, I though SS disciples are only supposed to use the Bible) Matthew Henry discerns,
See here the noble security of the scripture-style, which seems to contradict itself, but really does not. Wise men have need to be directed how to deal with fools; and they have never more need of wisdom than in dealing with such, to know when to keep silence and when to speak, for there may be a time for both. 1. In some cases a wise man will not set his wit to that of a fool so far as to answer him according to his folly “If he boast of himself, do not answer him by boasting of thyself. If he rail and talk passionately, do not thou rail and talk passionately too. If he tell one great lie, do not thou tell another to match it. If he calumniate thy friends, do not thou calumniate his. If he banter, do not answer him in his own language, lest thou be like him, even thou, who knowest better things, who hast more sense, and hast been better taught.”
2. Yet, in other cases, a wise man will use his wisdom for the conviction of a fool, when, by taking notice of what he says, there may be hopes of doing good, or at least preventing further, mischief, either to himself or others. “If thou have reason to think that thy silence will be deemed an evidence of the weakness of thy cause, or of thy own weakness, in such a case answer him, and let it be an answer ad hominem - to the man, beat him at his own weapons, and that will be an answer ad rem - to the point, or as good as one. If he offer any thing that looks like an argument, an answer that, and suit thy answer to his case. If he think, because thou dost not answer him, that what he says is unanswerable, then give him an answer, lest he be wise in his own conceit and boast of a victory.” For (Luk_7:35) Wisdom's children must justify her.
Contrary to Bart Ehrman, these are not faith-killers.
Anyone who makes such apparent contradictions to be faith-killers would have a real problem sooner or later in dealing with speaking and writing in everyday life.
And, there are passages where St. Paul comes out and says, "Hey guys, I'm writing this, not the Lord; these other sentences, however, ARE the Big Guy Upstairs talking, so listen up!"
Quite a paraphrase, but Scripture was never a formal project of a magisterium or of a man, and God's inspiration was at work even when the writer did not know it.
The big controversy (well, ok, two of them) on Sola Scriptura is: 1) Supreme Authority in matters of faith. Catholics say, nope, no private interpretation (2 Peter 1:20);
And which actually is a case of misinterpretation of Scripture, for contextually Peter is not even referring to interpretation of Scripture, but that of the writing of prophecy not being the product of man's own understanding, but to the contrary,
Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. (1 Peter 1:11)
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. (2 Peter 1:21)
And thus the use of 2 Peter 1:20, "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation," as an argument for an infallible interpreter would actually be a argument against it if they had an infallible interpretation of this verse as teaching what they invoke it for. And if not, then it testifies to the inadequacy of relying upon an infallible interpreter as a guard against erroneous interpretation, since Catholics engage in the latter, while arguing against personal interpretation under the premise that is is only allowed if not contradicting Catholic teaching. Yet as seen in this thread, what that all consists of and means is a matter of interpretation among Catholics.
The Protestants tend to quote 1 John 2:27, implying as it were the priesthood of all believers;
While not a good support for this, and often abused by "solo Scripturists," the fact is that the priesthood of all believers is the only priesthood in the NT church, in which there is no distinctive t Catholic priesthood .
First I don't accept 2 Timothy 3:16-17 as relevant, nor as dispositive of the issue. Why? Because it says "all Scripture is inspired by God." It DOES NOT say "Scripture is the only thing inspired by God, and will remain forever the only thing inspired by God."
However, if Scripture is the only wholly inspired substantive body of Truth then it includes whatever falls under that class. And God manifestly made writing His most-reliable means of authoritative preservation. (Exodus 17:14; 34:1,27; Deuteronomy 10:4; 17:18; 27:3,8; 31:24; Joshua 1:8; 2 Chronicles 34:15,18-19, 30-31; Psalm 19:7-11; 102:18; 119; Isaiah 30:8; Jeremiah 30:2; Matthew 4:5-7; 22:29; Luke 24:44,45; John 5:46,47; John 20:31; Acts 17:2,11; 18:28; Revelation 1:1; 20:12, 15;
And as abundantly evidenced , as written, Scripture became the transcendent supreme standard for obedience and testing and establishing truth claims as the wholly Divinely inspired and assured, Word of God. Thus the veracity of even apostolic oral preaching could be subject to testing by Scripture, (Acts 17:11) and not vice versa.
Moreover, men such as the apostles could speak as wholly inspired of God and also provide new public revelation thereby (in conflation with what had been written), neither of popes and councils claim to do. Thus the written word is the assured infallible word of God.
Then, there are instances, both in the life of Jesus, and elsewhere in the Gospels, and in the various epistles, where it is clearly implied or stated, that the revelations of the Holy Spirit to the church, are meant to be ongoing over time.
Private revelation, not public, which even Rome holds as being ceased (though as with the Assumption , she can claim to "remember" what history forgot.
And a great many of the doctrines taken for granted by Protestants, were hashed out with blood, sweat, tears, and fervent prayers, over centuries, by the Catholic Church. To say nothing of saving the West from Islam.
And of Judaism it must be said that we have "entered into their labours" (John 4:38) yet which simply does not mean that 1st century souls should have assented to all the judgements of its leadership
I think that the best Scripture of all, is Romans 14. ("Welcome the one whose faith is weak, but not for quarrels...and he will stand, for God is able to make him stand." It is a call for mutual forbearance and humility. Good night. :-)
Which has to do with areas of personal liberty, not doctrine.
IF Rome were to declare their Marian dogmas and/or these apparitions as incorrect the RCC would collapse.
They're so far down the rabbit hole on this and they don't even know it....but it's not as if they've been warned about this.
Well stated.
Thank you.
1 Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ.
2 Now I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I delivered them to you. 3 But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife[a] is her husband,[b] and the head of Christ is God. 4 Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head, 5 but every wife[c] who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, since it is the same as if her head were shaven. 6 For if a wife will not cover her head, then she should cut her hair short. But since it is disgraceful for a wife to cut off her hair or shave her head, let her cover her head. 7 For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man. 8 For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. 9 Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10 That is why a wife ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.[d] 11 Nevertheless, in the Lord woman is not independent of man nor man of woman; 12 for as woman was made from man, so man is now born of woman. And all things are from God. 13 Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a wife to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14 Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears long hair it is a disgrace for him, 15 but if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For her hair is given to her for a covering. 16 If anyone is inclined to be contentious, we have no such practice, nor do the churches of God.
(I wonder what Paul's recommened punishment for a man to have long hair?? {ignore that image on the shroud} )
You must be winning the argument again! You are trolling means “I’m out of responses so I’ll call you names”
It appears that some wording differs in some translations.
People worship relics. They worshiped the serpent on a pole made by Moses. They worshiped the ark of the covenant. And they worshiped the temple. Anything that distracts us from worshiping our Lord Jesus is sin.
Ephesians 4:29 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
Let no evil speech proceed from your mouth; but that which is good, to the edification of faith, that it may administer grace to the hearers.
I see...
Christ was not gentle with the money changers. At some point heresy and apostasy have to be called out. It is not living to let someone persist in error.
I call it checkmate.
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