Posted on 07/28/2019 6:02:04 AM PDT by Kaslin
In an imaginary “ranking” of Christian topics that elicit the most fervent discussions, Jesus Christ is No. 1. But near the top is the Shroud of Turin — believed by millions of Christians to be the authentic burial cloth of Jesus. This “ranking” was inspired by you — Townhall readers who wrote over 500 impassioned comments in response to my July 21 piece, “Shroud of Turin: New Test Concludes 1988 ‘Medieval Hoax’ Dating Was a Fraud.”
I purposely read all your comments to gain insight into my role as an adviser and fundraiser for a groundbreaking exhibition about the Shroud of Turin at the Museum of the Bible in Washington D.C. This spectacular museum, among the largest and highest rated in the city, is located only three blocks from the Capitol. And just prior to the January 20, 2021, presidential inauguration is when this high-tech Shroud exhibit is scheduled to open.
Threaded throughout hundreds of your responses about all aspects of the Shroud was one overarching theme summarized by these three comments:
“Anyone who requires physical evidence to underpin their faith doesn’t understand the concept of faith.”
“JESUS CHRIST died for all. HE is what is important. Making such a fuss about this piece of cloth is a distraction from HIS work of SALVATION.”
“I respectfully submit that the only ‘relic’ which really matters is the one which was left us on that first Easter morning: The tomb is empty! He is Risen! He is Risen indeed! Alleluia!”
Of course, “He is Risen” is also the foundation of my Christian faith, (made slightly more complicated by having been born Jewish). But I feel compelled to discuss and explore the comment that reads in part, “…such a fuss about this piece of cloth...”
And my response is simple: The Shroud of Turin exists because HE exists. An answer that echoes what God said to Moses, “I Am Who I Am. Say this to the people of Israel: I Am has sent me to you” (Exodus 3:14).
Thus, the existence of the Shroud of Turin raises two questions that I will attempt to address: First, what exactly is the Shroud? And second, a deeper dive into “Why does the cloth exist?”
The Shroud of Turin is a 14.5-by-3.5-foot linen cloth with a linear front to back mirror image of a crucified man. The Shroud has the distinction of being the most studied artifact in the world, yet the cloth’s numerous mysteries remained unexplained by modern science.
At this moment the Shroud lies in a fireproof box in the Cathedral of St. John the Baptist in Turin, Italy, as it has continuously since 1578. (But secretly relocated between 1939 and 1946 when Italian authorities feared Hitler was seeking possession.)
Dating the Shroud has been controversial and the subject of my July 21 piece.
Among Shroud historians, there is no dispute that in 1352, over 200 years before the Shroud was housed in Turin, Geoffrey DeCharney displayed the cloth in Lirey, France marking the beginning of the Shroud’s documented "modern" dating.
There is also much circumstantial Shroud evidence through art, artifacts, and coins that pre-dates 1352. Moreover, scientifically verified botanical evidence found on the cloth in the form of pollen, dust, flowers, and even the weave and type of linen traces the Shroud back to first-century Jerusalem.
The cloth with its mysterious properties has survived wars, invasions and the ravages of time including numerous fires — most recently in 1997 at its home cathedral in Turin.
Most harrowing was the 1532 fire in Chambéry, France. Miraculously the entire cloth was not destroyed but left those distinctive linear markings along both sides of the Shroud that we see today. Hard to imagine, but the linen cloth was stored in a silver box, folded in 48 layers, when drops of molten silver burned through the cloth’s outer folded edges.
The point is, against all the odds, the Shroud exists. And, as stated earlier, because He exists. There is also a significant Bible-based reason found in the Gospel of John known as “Doubting Thomas” (John 20:24-31).
But first, a “guest” who will explain this passage needs a proper introduction:
It turns out that the many Townhall readers who commented about not needing the Shroud’s “physical evidence to underpin their faith,” represent a large swath of Christian believers. I learned this when asking Russ Breault— my fellow Shroud exhibit team colleague, and a world-renowned Shroud expert and speaker — if he had experienced similar attitudes after over 30 years of hosting his popular “Shroud Encounters” to sell-out crowds.
Breault replied:
“I get that statement all the time! When someone says, ‘I don't need the Shroud for my faith,’ I usually say, ‘That is fantastic! But that doesn't mean the Shroud was not meant for someone else.’ ”
Breault continued: “In the Doubting Thomas story, Jesus pronounced a blessing on those who ‘believe yet have not seen,’ but Jesus did not condemn Thomas for his unbelief. In fact, a week after the Resurrection, Jesus appeared a second time, and the first person he spoke to was Thomas, who was not there to witness Jesus’ first appearance. Jesus then quotes Thomas' words back to him, ‘Thomas, thrust your hand into my side and place your fingers into my nail wounds and be not faithless but believe.’
At this point, Thomas — forever known as "Doubting Thomas" — makes the strongest profession of faith in the New Testament saying, "My Lord and my God." Then Jesus pronounced a blessing on those who can believe without seeing. So we are blessed if we can believe without seeing, but we are not cursed if we can't get there without some additional evidence.
Therefore, perhaps the Shroud is a silent witness to the world offering all of humanity the same opportunity Jesus gave to Thomas. In some proverbial sense by looking at the Shroud, we too can thrust our hand into His side and place our fingers into His nail wound and find our faith in the process.”
Thank you, Russ! And now my final thoughts for Townhall commenters.
If blessed with great faith, you are free to ignore or downplay the image on the Shroud showing Christ’s great suffering and victory over death. Yet, take comfort in knowing that the Shroud is there to supplement or reinforce the faith of others while potentially witnessing to the ever-increasing number of Doubting Thomases found throughout the world.
In the end, I believe that the Shroud exists as proof of God’s greatest gift to mankind —the Lord Jesus Christ — who lives and reigns forever and ever. Alleluia!
(Now, let the comments begin!)
You are not alone bro. The rest of us can say pretty much the same thing. 👍😁
Did you thank him for the gravel in your gut and the spit in your eye? 😁👍
“The Holy Spirit works in many different ways”
Yes, but only within the confines of the Holy Word of God. You want proof just look at your pope that was selected according to the unholy spirit of your church that proclaims his infallibility. That happened outside Scripture and according the the word and tradition of man and we see just how that has worked out.
“And I don’t hear even the most fire-breathing fundamentalists getting all bent out of shape over the various creeds; even though they are not recited in Scripture.”
And I don’t know of any that consider it equal to Holy Scripture either, but you do in error. If it agrees with Holy Scripture then no it’s not a problem, but you romans have more traditions that break the law of God and therefore or evil.
Context, I said it before that if it agrees with the Bible then it is acceptable (Trinity included), but when your roman church makes up traditions that enslaves her members that is evil.
You can't pull rank on God.
It doesn't matter if it goes against your denomination's stompy-foot insistence, either.
Didja notice I referred to Catholic nuns as well as out-and-out Pentecostals?
The point is obeying Him (left out for the moment is whether it happens to be the Father, or the Son, or the Spirit, in any particular case, as they all outrank me. As well as any and all denominations.) Also, since 1 John says believe not EVERY spirit, that implies that there are spirits who you're *supposed* to believe. Presumably, that'd be angels ("messengers"), who for some reason, He sometimes sends either to give a message, or to protect, or strengthen.
As far as the selection of Francis the Commie mole...
It also (according to a couple of other posters on this thread) violated established Canon Law.
There are a couple of pre-existing prophecies within the Catholic sphere, which are given differing amounts of credibility (Third prophecy of Fatima, IIRC), as well as a revelation to one of the earlier popes in the late 1800s...that make me not too surprised about Francis the Commie mole; and the lavender mafia in the Vatican.
Things that make you go hmmmmm.
But any other denominations' traditions (including sola scriptura which is doctrinally a Johnny-come-lately, and is not found in scripture, no matter how often you misquote 1 Timothy 3)...we'll, they're ok, because they're 'our' traditions.
But there are a couple of other issues which are even more important.
First, not everything taught by Rome is necessarily a "made-up" tradition: some were revealed (e.g. Jesus to Aquinas "Thou hast written well of the sacrament of my death"), some were hammered out over time as a result of the progressive revelation of the Holy Spirit to the church (e.g. rejection of the Arian heresy and others). Note that I am careful to include as examples, for this purpose, only things which Catholics and dratted Protties have in common.
The other issue, is just because the Holy Spirit has moved on from a particular practice (or, possibly, our apostate age has fallen away from it), that doesn't mean that continuing in the practice must necessarily be *sinful*. By analogy, think of one of those Hawaiian lava flows -- you've got a thin crust on top, but the lava below is red hot and keeps moving and flowing. When the lava flow has gone by, the rock solidifies; but it's still genuinely result of the lava and not a fraud or fake.
“You can’t pull rank on God.”
That’s all you can say... well I guess when you haven’t a leg to stand on that’s the standard answer.
“denomination’s stompy-foot insistence, either.”
I don’t have a denomination I have a personal relationship with God the Father through His Son Jesus Christ. I’ll leave the denominational stuff to you cult types you all are much better at it.
“Also, since 1 John says believe not EVERY spirit, that implies that there are spirits who you’re *supposed* to believe.”
Yes if it is within the already established Word of God not a new made up doctrine such as the worship of dead saints or Mary.
You believe Fatima was a genuine visitation by the Mother of Jesus? LOL explains a lot of your ramblings and insults.
“e.g. Jesus to Aquinas “Thou hast written well of the sacrament of my death”
So you say, but since it disagrees with the Holy Word of God therefore it wasn’t Jesus it was a demon, Gal 1:8
A very good example of that is the “maryoligy” dogma it’s clearly from the pits of hell as it is completely against the entire Word of God. I suggest you read about the church of Thyatira that way you can clearly see the fate of your cult.
Circular reasoning, see also reasoning, circular.
As well as slander.
When you actually read a lot of the lives of the saints, you find out Jesus was very active in their lives, and they encountered a lot of resistance for it. And they're the first ones to insist they're not worthy of any credit; one I was reading about petitioned her Mother Superior to sell her to Jesus as "his donkey" as an act of devotion.
When you think about what donkeys are like, ... not much room for worship there.
For Mary...that's the other fundamental (har!) difference that I can see which most often comes up between Protestants and Catholics; and in a way, it depends on sola scriptura: for that doctrine holds that only the inspired scripture is valid, whereas Catholic teaching (and Orthodox) is that you have to rely on the historical teaching of the church, you can't just go interpreting scripture all on your lonesome.
And so the reverence of Mary, immaculate conception, etc. etc., all come from different historical teachings of the Church.
And the visions and apparitions of Mary -- are Mary warning us to pray for peace and for God's Mercy, and warning of lots of problems should people not pray.
And then there's the Virgin of Guadalupe. Responsible for a whole truckload of conversions to Christianity.
Can't find a whole lot to complain about there.
Can you (without looking it up) tell me what it was Aquinas wrote?
(I even mistyped it myself. 404--Lack of Coffee Error).
Cause if you can't, then you don't know whether it agrees with the Word of God...
One of the messages of Fatima in 1917 was to pray for Russia: that if they did not pray, the errors of Russia would be promulgated throughout the entire world.
Can you say Communist?
I can envisage no way that an urgent entreaty for prayer to prevent the spread of Communism, can be Satanic.
You believe the FAtima deception? LOL, amazing how wrong some people WANT to be and how easily they are taken in by apparitions. Have you seen the pictures taken at Fatima during the ‘event’? Couple of good frames of that UFO over the crowd. Eyewitnesses even identified it as a silver disc that buzzed the crowd. LOL, you are a Fatima believer! Yeah, satan will have no trouble fooling you with his signs and lying wonders, after the Body of ALL believers since Pentecost are out of his way. Don’t take the Mark.
Especially when that error killed 100 million people over the next century.
“Aquinas”
If you rc’s would read and study the Holy Word of God instead of all the other writers/commentators you would see your errors.
First thing a rc does is quote a writer/commentator instead of the Word of God. I have noticed that the only way a rc can prop up the horrible dogma of the roman church is by anyone else besides the writers of the Bible.
“Johnny-come-lately, and is not found in scripture”
By the way sola Scripture isn’t a new doctrine Jesus used nothing but the Holy Word of God to defeat the Devil in the wilderness, so if the Word of God was good enough for my Savior then it’s good enough for me!
“And then there’s the Virgin of Guadalupe. Responsible for a whole truckload of conversions to Christianity.”
Your version of christianity is according to the church of Thyatira. The virgin of guadalupe is one of the most devilish things I have ever personally seen. It is so far away from the Holy Scriptures that even Satan must be proud of his work. Nice example of worshiping false gods and of exactly what Paul taught against in Gal 1:8.
If you rc’s would read and study the Holy Word of God instead of all the other writers/commentators you would see your errors.
(Shakes head. You're incorrect. But you're too dishonest with yourself and too in love with whatever you've been spoon fed, to even consider the possibility.)
First thing a rc does is quote a writer/commentator instead of the Word of God. I have noticed that the only way a rc can prop up the horrible dogma of the roman church is by anyone else besides the writers of the Bible.
That's because some of the Protestants on this thread, went out of their way to spread rumors about Catholics. By definition, I'm going to have to talk about the Catholics to demonstrate that the accusations were *historically* wrong.
By the way sola Scripture isn’t a new doctrine Jesus used nothing but the Holy Word of God to defeat the Devil in the wilderness, so if the Word of God was good enough for my Savior then it’s good enough for me!
Following Jesus is a good example. But Jesus didn't cast the Legion out of the demoniac by quoting Scripture; nor again from the dumb child whom the disciples didn't exorcise. Nor did hHe quote Scripture when cursing the fig tree or feeding the 5,000.
Come to think of it, He didn't quote Scripture when calling the Apostles ("I saw you under the fig tree").
I conclude you've jumped the gun on your claim.
Sola scriptura is pretty accurate as far as doctrine but not necessarily for contemporary specific instructions. Satan is still at war on the Church and on the whole of humanity, and God wants to give us ongoing instructions, sometimes on what to do, sometimes on what to pray for, sometimes on who to pray for.
Why you can even find Evangelicals on this thread, who had people praying for them before they were converted, that they didn't know about.
Conversions to Christianity are not the work of Satan, nor can they be.
“Can’t find a whole lot to complain about there.”
Most of the world doesn’t read and study the Word of God for themselves they are happy with being spoon fed.
Most people haven’t seen you rc’s worship, kiss, kneel, pray to, and wail at teeth, blood, corpses/mummies, dead gods, a fake savior still dead on a cross, plastic symbols, and beads that promise salvation, but deliver damnation.
Stick with the Word of God and it only and have faith in Jesus Christ and Him alone and be born again.
“You’re simply wrong.”
I’m not right or wrong it’s the Word of God that says worshiping a statue or Mary isn’t godly, but of Satan. Plus Mary was only a virgin for Christ’s birth after that she was a good wife and fulfilled her duty to her husband thus fulfilling the Word of God.
Just a Jesus told the pharisee’s your tradition goes against the Word of God therefore it is of the Devil so goes the roman church.
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