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To: Bubba Ho-Tep
Where Congress had the power to end slavery, in DC, they did so in 1862.

The war started in 1861. If slavery was the cause, they would have abolished slavery in DC before the war. They would have also started their attack by invading Maryland. Slavery as a cause of the war is a lie.

The slave states that did not secede ended slavery on their own without making war on the United States.

In 1865. Six months after slavery had already been abolished in the Confederacy. For six months longer, the Union still had legal slavery. Again, for a war to be about slavery, you have to abolish it on the side claiming to be fighting against slavery, first.

Then why did the states the had a "decent respect to the opinions of mankind" overwhelmingly cite slavery as the reason for their secession?

I reject that claim. I've read the statements. People are being "creative" in their efforts to force them to mean what they claim. Just saying "slave owning states" is "interpreted" to mean they were seceding over slavery.

Because the south made war on the United States by opening fire on Ft. Sumter.

Lincoln started the war on April 8th by launching a fleet of warships to attack the Confederates around Ft. Sumter. Lincoln started the war with that attack. Called this attack a "supply mission" which is just a lie.

Was an attack. Southerners responded to this attack.

As I'm sure you've heard many times, the United States was fighting to preserve the Union against armed insurrection, as authorized by Article 1, Section 15 of the Constitution.

Another lie. Secession under the right to independence guaranteed by the Declaration of Independence. Lincoln lied about it. Called it "insurrection." Is not insurrection when states have a peaceable vote to leave Union. Is a *LIE* to call this "Insurrection" or "Rebellion."

Lincoln called it an "insurrection" because this unlocked power to use military force to stop it. Locked up anyone who disagreed with this claim, so people were cowed.

Justice Salmon P Chase made it clear that "Secession is not Rebellion." Exact Words.

The lie is that the south seceded for any other reason than to protect slavery...

No, the Lie is that the south's reasons for leaving had any thing to do with why the North launched a war against it. The north would have launched the war no matter what the South's reasons for leaving were. Therefore the South's reasons are irrelevant.

The only cause of the war is the North's reasons. The South's reasons don't matter. The people who launched the murder have to justify why they launched the murder. The people who were being murdered by the Northern armies do *NOT* have to justify why they wanted to leave.

368 posted on 03/20/2019 3:52:17 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: DiogenesLamp

“In 1865 Six months after slavery had already been abolished in the Confederacy”
Your statement is inaccurate. Slavery still legally existed in almost the entire state of Tennessee. 13 Parishes in Louisiana, the Tidewater region of Virginia, parts of coastal North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia.
These areas were exempt from the Emancipation Proclaimation because they were under Federal control on January 1 1863. Those slaves and the slaves in Kentucky, West Virginia and Delaware would not be freed until the XVIII amendment to the Constitution was ratified.


380 posted on 03/20/2019 8:57:43 PM PDT by Bull Snipe
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To: DiogenesLamp; Bubba Ho-Tep
DiogenesLamp: "The war started in 1861.
If slavery was the cause, they would have abolished slavery in DC before the war.
They would have also started their attack by invading Maryland.
Slavery as a cause of the war is a lie."

Slavery was certainly the major cause for secession and secession was certainly a precondition for war, ergo... slavery was very important to the reasons for Civil War.

Slavery was also a major factor during the war, from Contraband to confiscations, to Confederate slave-catchers, to Emancipation and Union colored troops, to Confederate refusals to officially enlist black soldiers, to abolition and citizenship for former slaves.

So our Lost Causer claim that slavery was not important to the Civil War is simply an outright Big Lie.

392 posted on 03/21/2019 4:17:15 AM PDT by BroJoeK ((a little historical perspective...))
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To: DiogenesLamp; Bubba Ho-Tep
DiogenesLamp: "Again, for a war to be about slavery, you have to abolish it on the side claiming to be fighting against slavery, first."

The North did abolish slavery first decades before 1860.
It's what made them so hostile to its expansion in US western territories.

And, protecting slavery against Northern abolitionists was the stated reason for Deep South secessions leading to war.
That Lincoln had no intentions to abolish slavery in the South in 1861 is perfectly true, but doesn't mean the war had "nothing to do with" slavery, even then.

In a larger sense, Civil War was always "all about" slavery.

393 posted on 03/21/2019 4:26:22 AM PDT by BroJoeK ((a little historical perspective...))
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To: DiogenesLamp; Bubba Ho-Tep
DiogenesLamp: "Lincoln started the war on April 8th by launching a fleet of warships to attack the Confederates around Ft. Sumter.
Lincoln started the war with that attack. Called this attack a "supply mission" which is just a lie.
Was an attack.
Southerners responded to this attack."

Except that it was not an "attack", it was a peaceful resupply mission which would have ended with no shots fired had Confederates allowed it.
Confederates chose to see Lincoln's mission as "assailing" their "integrity" and so ordered Sumter "reduced".

Those were the shots which started Civil War.

DiogenesLamp: "Another lie.
Secession under the right to independence guaranteed by the Declaration of Independence.
Lincoln lied about it.
Called it "insurrection."
Is not insurrection when states have a peaceable vote to leave Union.
Is a *LIE* to call this "Insurrection" or "Rebellion." "

At this point, typical Democrat, DiogenesLamp can't stop lying, can't control his urge to lie, lies with a straight face, lies with conviction, lies with passion -- it's what being a Democrat is all about, first & foremost: the Big Lies.

The real truth of this matter is Deep South secessionists declared their separations & Confederate governments peacefully, because neither President Buchanan nor Lincoln did anything to stop them.
War then only came because Confederates provoked, started, declared & waged war against the United States, even in Union states & territories.

Call that "rebellion", call it whatever you wish, Confederates were a military threat which had to be defeated, period.

DiogenesLamp: "Justice Salmon P Chase made it clear that "Secession is not Rebellion."
Exact Words."

But rebellion is rebellion, exact words, you can look it up.

DiogenesLamp: "No, the Lie is that the south's reasons for leaving had any thing to do with why the North launched a war against it.
The north would have launched the war no matter what the South's reasons for leaving were.
Therefore the South's reasons are irrelevant. "

Slavery was hugely important to secession and the course of Civil War, regardless of how much you Lost Causers lie to deny it.

DiogenesLamp: "The only cause of the war is the North's reasons.
The South's reasons don't matter.
The people who launched the murder have to justify why they launched the murder.
The people who were being murdered by the Northern armies do *NOT* have to justify why they wanted to leave."

Well, first, war is not "murder", certainly not the US Civil War whose soldiers on both sides were exceptionally well-behaved compared to almost any others from any other times.

Second, if anyone, Confederates do "have to" justify why they provoked war, started war, declared war & waged war, primarily at first in Union states.
And why Confederates refused to stop fighting for any terms better than Unconditional Surrender.

394 posted on 03/21/2019 4:57:15 AM PDT by BroJoeK ((a little historical perspective...))
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